Author Topic: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings  (Read 73748 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #760 on: July 09, 2023, 02:05:03 PM »
So are you saying even after this opinion a florist would have to supply flowers to a gay wedding even if it goes against their deeply held religious beliefs? They would have to provide their usual (non-creative) services including attending the wedding to deliver the flowers (if that is part of their usual package)? (I understand they would definitely have to supply flowers to a gay *person*.)

Why would you need to attend in order to deliver?
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Offline S209

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #761 on: July 09, 2023, 02:38:10 PM »
Why would you need to attend in order to deliver?
That is often part of a florist’s service, delivering the flowers and placing them where they belong in the hall. It generally includes arrangement as well but I guess that would definitely fall under creative expression.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #762 on: July 09, 2023, 02:43:15 PM »
That is often part of a florist’s service, delivering the flowers and placing them where they belong in the hall. It generally includes arrangement as well but I guess that would definitely fall under creative expression.

My understanding is that a caterer would have to deliver standard items to the door
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #763 on: July 09, 2023, 02:44:58 PM »
So are you saying even after this opinion a florist would have to supply flowers to a gay wedding even if it goes against their deeply held religious beliefs? They would have to provide their usual (non-creative) services including attending the wedding to deliver the flowers (if that is part of their usual package)? (I understand they would definitely have to supply flowers to a gay *person*.)

Fwiu, if the florist is being asked to make bridal arrangements, they wouldn't have to.

If a gay couple asked for generic benchers from a printer, they would have to provide them. If they wanted them customized with "wedding celebration of...." they wouldn't need to.

Offline S209

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #764 on: July 09, 2023, 03:01:32 PM »
Fwiu, if the florist is being asked to make bridal arrangements, they wouldn't have to.

If a gay couple asked for generic benchers from a printer, they would have to provide them. If they wanted them customized with "wedding celebration of...." they wouldn't need to.
So according to your understanding you don’t have to provide service, even if completely standard, as long as it is in some way an exercise of creative expression. But if it requires no creative expression you are compelled to provide the service for a specific event even if it goes against your deeply held religious beliefs (the event, not the person).

If this is the case, I don’t really understand how this ruling is different than the cake ruling.
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Offline Ver hut gazugt

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #765 on: July 09, 2023, 05:37:46 PM »
So according to your understanding you don’t have to provide service, even if completely standard, as long as it is in some way an exercise of creative expression. But if it requires no creative expression you are compelled to provide the service for a specific event even if it goes against your deeply held religious beliefs (the event, not the person).

If this is the case, I don’t really understand how this ruling is different than the cake ruling.

“The court’s decision came just over five years after its ruling in the case of another Colorado resident, Jack Phillips, a baker who refused to make a custom cake for a same-sex couple because he believed that doing so would violate his religious beliefs. By a vote of 7-2, the court gave Phillips a narrow victory, holding that the Colorado administrative agency that had ruled against him had treated him unfairly by being too hostile to his sincere religious beliefs. But the justices did not determine whether or to what extent a service provider’s sincere religious beliefs might have to yield to the state’s interest in protecting the rights of same-sex couples, nor did they decide whether compelling Phillips to bake a cake for a same-sex couple would violate his right to freedom of speech.

In the five years since the court’s decision in Phillips’ case, the composition of the court has changed significantly. Kennedy, who wrote for the majority in 2018, retired less than a month later. He was succeeded by the more conservative Brett Kavanaugh. And two years after that, the court’s senior liberal justice, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, died at the age of 87, allowing then-President Donald Trump to appoint another conservative jurist, Amy Coney Barrett, to replace her.

It was therefore a more conservative court that this term considered the case of Lorie Smith, a devout Christian who owns a website- and graphic-design business in Littleton, Colorado. Smith wanted to expand her business to include wedding websites – but only for heterosexual couples, and she wanted to post a message on her own website to make that clear. But such a statement would run afoul of Colorado’s public-accommodations law, which bars businesses that are open to the public from discriminating against (among others) LGBTQ people or announcing their intent to do so. Roughly half of U.S. states have similar laws.“

Offline mevinyavin

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Re: Supreme Court of the United States Recent Rulings
« Reply #766 on: July 17, 2023, 09:05:39 AM »
WSJ editorial today.




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Offline aygart

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