Author Topic: R.I.P. Freedom  (Read 10155 times)

Offline EliJelly

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2021, 01:51:22 AM »
Quote
Section 230 merely protects them from a narrow set of frivolous lawsuits, ....or in cases where they're being sued for the moderation choices they make, which are mostly protected by the 1st Amendment anyway (but Section 230 helps get those frivolous lawsuits kicked out faster)
That's where the dog is buried, I assume.

Offline 123-Rosh

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2021, 04:24:45 PM »
Twitter has every right to censor whoever they want. Conservatives have every right to migrate to Parler, which they did.
The problem is that they blocked Parler.
Apple and Android have a monopoly on smart phones, and they both blocked Parler. So what are conservatives supposed to do now? Make our own phones?

Offline Shaya E

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2021, 04:29:42 PM »
Twitter has every right to censor whoever they want. Conservatives have every right to migrate to Parler, which they did.
The problem is that they blocked Parler.
Apple and Android have a monopoly on smart phones, and they both blocked Parler. So what are conservatives supposed to do now? Make our own phones?

I don't follow your logic. If Twitter has every right to block whomever they want, what could be wrong with Apple doing the same. Does the degree of difficulty in finding a replacement change their right? Obviously, Apple isn't an opinion platform but it didn't sound like you were complaining that Apple blocked an app.

Offline 123-Rosh

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2021, 04:49:05 PM »
I don't follow your logic. If Twitter has every right to block whomever they want, what could be wrong with Apple doing the same. Does the degree of difficulty in finding a replacement change their right? Obviously, Apple isn't an opinion platform but it didn't sound like you were complaining that Apple blocked an app.

Since Apple and Google control all the phones in the US, when they block an app, they have effectively banned it from even competing. Its like Verizon AT&T and Sprint banding together and blocking all conservatives from using their cell phone networks.
What are we supposed to do? Build our own cell phone networks? Create our own phones?

Twitter can theoretically get away with blocking conservatives by claiming we can create our own forum so they're not a monopoly. But I don't think Apple and Google will be able to get away with it. They have a monopoly on the market and they blocked the voice/outlet of probably a third of the country!
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 04:57:22 PM by 123-Rosh »

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2021, 04:59:55 PM »
Twitter has every right to censor whoever they want. Conservatives have every right to migrate to Parler, which they did.
The problem is that they blocked Parler.
Apple and Android have a monopoly on smart phones, and they both blocked Parler. So what are conservatives supposed to do now? Make our own phones?
You’re right, that’s a true issue and will probably be litigated in court. Apple is required to allow fair access to its App Store.
I don’t think AWS has that issue.

That’s why they spelled out their issue with Parler was a lack of moderation against violence, which may make it a fair removal.
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Offline Shaya E

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2021, 05:04:57 PM »
Since Apple and Google control all the phones in the US, when they block an app, they have effectively banned it from even competing. Its like Verizon AT&T and Sprint banding together and blocking all conservatives from using their cell phone networks.
What are we supposed to do? Build our own cell phone networks? Create our own phones?

Twitter can theoretically get away with blocking conservatives by claiming we can create our own forum so they're not a monopoly. But I don't think Apple and Google will be able to get away with it. They have a monopoly on the market and they blocked the voice/outlet of probably a third of the country!

I totally agree. My point of contention was your point that Twitter absolutely has the right. Ability to create does not a monopoly not make. I think Twitter is a monopoly too. However, all that means is they have to have a legitimate reason to block someone/something. Unfortunately, in this case, they had a good reason.

Offline 123-Rosh

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2021, 05:13:55 PM »
Do Verizon, AT&T and Sprint have the right to band together and block all conservatives from using their cell phone networks due to possible violence, based on what happened Jan 6th?

Offline Shaya E

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2021, 05:17:07 PM »
Do Verizon, AT&T and Sprint have the right to band together and block all conservatives from using their cell phone networks due to possible violence, based on what happened Jan 6th?

Absolutely not. Conservatives as a whole aren't a violent group. They would (probably, I'm not a lawyer) be able to block a legally designated violent group though. Either way, that isn't at all what happened in this case.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2021, 05:20:20 PM »
https://twitter.com/juddlegum/status/1348393702360805376?s=21

More companies silencing Republicans. Good look winning an election again
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Offline Shaya E

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2021, 05:21:58 PM »
They would (probably, I'm not a lawyer) be able to block a legally designated violent group though.
After proving that each person is a part  of said group and why their service will enable violence

Offline 123-Rosh

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2021, 05:28:39 PM »
I don't think any judges will go up against the left anymore, so I think big tech is convinced they will be able to get away with whatever they decide.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2021, 05:30:49 PM »
Do Verizon, AT&T and Sprint have the right to band together and block all conservatives from using their cell phone networks due to possible violence, based on what happened Jan 6th?
Phone companies use a public asset (frequencies) so have obligations to serve the public.

If all bakeries got together and decided not to serve Republicans, I believe that would be perfectly legal and protected as a form of Free Speech. Only certain kinds of discrimination are illegal, so the bakeries luckily can’t decide not to serve Jews
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2021, 05:33:10 PM »
I don't think any judges will go up against the left anymore, so I think big tech is convinced they will be able to get away with whatever they decide.
SCOTUS is pretty conservative
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Offline Shaya E

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2021, 05:33:40 PM »
Phone companies use a public asset (frequencies) so have obligations to serve the public.

If all bakeries got together and decided not to serve Republicans, I believe that would be perfectly legal and protected as a form of Free Speech. Only certain kinds of discrimination are illegal, so the bakeries luckily can’t decide not to serve Jews

Individually you're right. But we do have anti-monopoly laws and I wouldn't be surprised if everyone banding together would constitute a monopoly. I don't really know though.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2021, 05:37:54 PM »
Individually you're right. But we do have anti-monopoly laws and I wouldn't be surprised if everyone banding together would constitute a monopoly. I don't really know though.
Varies a lot state to state I believe

Monopoly laws are an anti freedom necessity
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Offline Shaya E

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2021, 05:42:59 PM »
Varies a lot state to state I believe

Monopoly laws are a freedom necessity
FTFY
Power by monopoly is just another form of power that society as a whole is protecting themselves from. That's the definition of freedom, not libertarianism.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2021, 05:55:34 PM »
FTFY
Power by monopoly is just another form of power that society as a whole is protecting themselves from. That's the definition of freedom, not libertarianism.
Maybe, but from a constitutional perspective freedom is from the government preventing the companies from forming a monopoly. I agree it’s necessary for the well-being of the public.
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Offline zh cohen

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2021, 06:00:39 PM »
https://twitter.com/juddlegum/status/1348393702360805376?s=21

More companies silencing Republicans. Good look winning an election again

That's not what the article says, but keep on trying to make a story where there isn't one. 3 companies said they wouldn't give to those who voted against accepting the votes, and between the three of them they gave less than $20k to those candidates this past cycle.

The rest said they are either suspending all donations (to Democrats and Republicans) or that they are "examining" their policy regarding who to give (which is a nice way to brush off the reporter without getting anyone angry at them).

Offline Moshe123

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2021, 06:02:20 PM »
Parler CEO John Matze says his platform can’t find an alternative after being dropped by Amazon’s servers, and lawyers are no longer representing the company:
https://t.co/JruWXcg8nb

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2021, 06:06:02 PM »
https://twitter.com/angry__saint/status/1348350058861797376?s=21

Parler CEO John Matze says his platform can’t find an alternative after being dropped by Amazon’s servers, and lawyers are no longer representing the company:
https://t.co/JruWXcg8nb
I guess Parlers lawyers are silencing them too
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