Author Topic: R.I.P. Freedom  (Read 10344 times)

Offline Shaya E

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #80 on: January 11, 2021, 03:13:16 PM »
Agreed. The problem is when they cater to the minorities, it can turn off moderates and independents. A progressive party by definition will have a far broader spectrum of opinions that a Conservative party where everybody pretty much agrees to keep things as they are
+1

The only real thing uniting all the disparate parts of the Democratic party is agreeing to change, or "progress". What said changes should be is sometimes very different. Conservatives, by definition, want things to stay the same. On a side note, this is why I would never consider myself a conservative. Change is good, trying to fix issues is good. I don't mind disagreeing on the solution but I hate when people refuse to acknowledge a problem because it doesn't affect them or because it isn't how we always did it.

Offline 123-Rosh

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #81 on: January 11, 2021, 03:35:11 PM »
+1

The only real thing uniting all the disparate parts of the Democratic party is agreeing to change, or "progress". What said changes should be is sometimes very different. Conservatives, by definition, want things to stay the same. On a side note, this is why I would never consider myself a conservative. Change is good, trying to fix issues is good. I don't mind disagreeing on the solution but I hate when people refuse to acknowledge a problem because it doesn't affect them or because it isn't how we always did it.

Conservatives aren't against "progress" per se if it helps. But they are against leftism, socialism, communism, etc. They are also against "change" for the sake of change.
Conservatives do want the basic principles of the USA to remain, such as faith, family, individualism, capitalism, private property, freedom from government tyranny, free speech, the constitution, etc.

"Change is good" - so says the Reform movement regarding Judaism.

Offline Shaya E

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #82 on: January 11, 2021, 03:48:30 PM »
Conservatives aren't against "progress" per se if it helps. But they are against leftism, socialism, communism, etc. They are also against "change" for the sake of change.
Conservatives do want the basic principles of the USA to remain, such as faith, family, individualism, capitalism, private property, freedom from government tyranny, free speech, the constitution, etc.

"Change is good" - so says the Reform movement regarding Judaism.

Nobody wants change for the sake of change. People want change to fix all those problems. You know, like when people say "oh that's just how the world works" or "life isn't fair" or other such nonsense. We'll never have a perfect world, but if we keep trying it will keep getting better and more fair. Much as it's gotten better and better ever since the enlightenment. That is when people started realizing we can change things. Obviously, some of the solutions worked and others didn't but they all had the acknowledgment that a better world is possible as their initial premise.

You claim you aren't against change (I would prefer that you are against stagnation) but you're last comment implies you are. Reform judaism's flaw was the initial premise that a better judaism is possible, it isn't. When it relates to society, a better world is possible and therefore attainable if we try.

Offline 123-Rosh

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #83 on: January 11, 2021, 03:48:42 PM »
https://www.state.gov/people/donald-j-trump/

Hack? Resigning?

"We’re sorry, this site is currently experiencing technical difficulties.
Please try again in a few moments."

Offline 123-Rosh

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #84 on: January 11, 2021, 03:54:24 PM »
Nobody wants change for the sake of change. People want change to fix all those problems. You know, like when people say "oh that's just how the world works" or "life isn't fair" or other such nonsense. We'll never have a perfect world, but if we keep trying it will keep getting better and more fair. Much as it's gotten better and better ever since the enlightenment. That is when people started realizing we can change things. Obviously, some of the solutions worked and others didn't but they all had the acknowledgment that a better world is possible as their initial premise.

You claim you aren't against change (I would prefer that you are against stagnation) but you're last comment implies you are. Reform judaism's flaw was the initial premise that a better judaism is possible, it isn't. When it relates to society, a better world is possible and therefore attainable if we try.

You misunderstood my comment.
You were saying "Change is good". To me that sounds like change for the sake of change is good.
Conservatives don't believe that change for the sake of change is good. Conservatives believe that change is good only when it is really good. Every "change" needs to be evaluated to see if it is really good.

Orthodox Jews always want to make Judaism better. But we don't want to change Judaism.
Conservatives are always trying to make our country better for everyone. But we don't want to change our country.

A good example: The racism that we saw by some police officers. Conservatives want to fix that, by firing and prosecuting the bad apples, and changing the culture in the police departments. But the left wants to defund the police - to destroy the entire fabric of our society. Sometimes, change isn't good. Fixing is better.

Offline Shaya E

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #85 on: January 11, 2021, 03:58:04 PM »
You misunderstood my comment.
You were saying "Change is good". To me that sounds like change for the sake of change is good.
Conservatives don't believe that change for the sake of change is good. Conservatives believe that change is good only when it is really good. Every "change" needs to be evaluated to see if it is really good.

Orthodox Jews always want to make Judaism better. But we don't want to change Judaism.
Conservatives are always trying to make our country better for everyone. But we don't want to change our country.

A good example: The racism that we saw by some police officers. Conservatives want to fix that, by firing and prosecuting the bad apples, and changing the culture in the police departments. But the left wants to defund the police - to destroy the entire fabric of our society. Sometimes, change isn't good. Fixing is better.

"Fixing" just means smaller changes. Smaller changes are better, but bigger changes must be on the table. Nothing about our society is sacred and should be untouchable unless it violates human rights. Not willing to try bigger changes, after smaller ones have been tried, is a problem.

Offline Shaya E

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #86 on: January 11, 2021, 04:00:41 PM »
A radical idea is not necessarily wrong. I'm not implying I agree but how many people have seriously considered a government paid basic income and how many dismiss it out of hand merely because it's too radical a change.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #87 on: January 11, 2021, 04:09:29 PM »
That's not what the article says, but keep on trying to make a story where there isn't one. 3 companies said they wouldn't give to those who voted against accepting the votes, and between the three of them they gave less than $20k to those candidates this past cycle.

The rest said they are either suspending all donations (to Democrats and Republicans) or that they are "examining" their policy regarding who to give (which is a nice way to brush off the reporter without getting anyone angry at them).
AT&T, the 48th largest corporate donor who gave $12m in 2020 cycle just said it will blacklist Republicans who voted to reject electors.

Great to see American companies exercise their Freedom of Speech to root out extremism.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Shaya E

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #88 on: January 11, 2021, 04:20:55 PM »
AT&T, the 48th largest corporate donor who gave $12m in 2020 cycle just said it will blacklist Republicans who voted to reject electors.

Great to see American companies exercise their Freedom of Speech to root out extremism.

This has nothing to do with freedom of speech. They just aren't giving their own money to candidates who don't act in what they (at&t) perceive as their best interest.

Offline 123-Rosh

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #89 on: January 11, 2021, 04:27:41 PM »
AT&T, the 48th largest corporate donor who gave $12m in 2020 cycle just said it will blacklist Republicans who voted to reject electors.

Great to see American companies exercise their Freedom of Speech to root out extremism.

What's extreme about wanting to investigate the fraudulent election?

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #90 on: January 11, 2021, 04:47:22 PM »
This has nothing to do with freedom of speech. They just aren't giving their own money to candidates who don't act in what they (at&t) perceive as their best interest.
Abstaining from donating to the seditionists isn’t, but continuing to give to other politicians is a classic exercise of Freedom of Speech
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Shaya E

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #91 on: January 11, 2021, 04:51:56 PM »
Abstaining from donating to the seditionists isn’t, but continuing to give to other politicians is a classic exercise of Freedom of Speech
True.

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #92 on: January 11, 2021, 05:58:45 PM »
the Republican Party is likely to disappear
;D
@TimT is smirking because @TimT knows that even if the Republican Party is to disappear @TimT will still be able to find it because @TimT could find anything

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #93 on: January 11, 2021, 06:04:06 PM »
Between the natural demographics, Anti-Trump movement,  DC/PR statehood, & amnesty for immigrants, unless Biden screws up really badly the Republican Party is likely to disappear like the Whig Party did in 1850s when it's base splinters over slaves.
Like many of your posts, this one makes me ROTFLMAO. I’m old enough to remember when back in 2012, they said “A Republican President will never win again.” Let’s revisit this in 2022.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #94 on: January 11, 2021, 07:06:20 PM »
Let’s revisit this in 2022.
Deal.
I imagine you laughed when I said Biden would win and again when I said Democrats would win Georgia
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline aygart

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #95 on: January 11, 2021, 07:39:02 PM »
Next chapter in 'trying to make' a trend of companies 'silencing' Republican seditionists, now from a company that gives $1m+ per election cycle

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/533630-dow-chemical-wont-donate-to-politicians-who-opposed-election-results

https://twitter.com/juddlegum/status/1348656675599822855?s=21

Between the natural demographics, Anti-Trump movement,  DC/PR statehood, & amnesty for immigrants, unless Biden screws up really badly the Republican Party is likely to disappear like the Whig Party did in 1850s when it's base splinters over slaves.

Did they stop donating to dems who objected in 2000, 2004, and 2016?
Will they now?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #96 on: January 11, 2021, 07:43:14 PM »
Deal.
I imagine you laughed when I said Biden would win and again when I said Democrats would win Georgia
Lol. You are blinded by the elections and think the US will turn into your utopian commune. The political pendulum will keep on swinging...and it is swinging with more force then ever.

Offline aygart

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #97 on: January 11, 2021, 07:47:52 PM »
AT&T, the 48th largest corporate donor who gave $12m in 2020 cycle just said it will blacklist Republicans who voted to reject electors.

Great to see American companies exercise their Freedom of Speech to root out extremism.
Same question.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #98 on: January 11, 2021, 07:48:28 PM »
Lol. You are blinded by the elections and think the US will turn into your utopian commune. The political pendulum will keep on swinging...and it is swinging with more force then ever.
Biden is not quite the D Trump
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: R.I.P. Freedom
« Reply #99 on: January 11, 2021, 08:01:23 PM »
Did they stop donating to dems who objected in 2000, 2004, and 2016?
Will they now?
Verizon & Amex have since joined AT&T in blacklisting the seditionists. They didn’t act so in the past because it didn’t harm the public as much.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים