Old Tech Or New Tech, Choose One.

[Dan]

But it's not like when you pay for the upgrade they have to install a better harddrive or extra lights in your vehicle. They literally log into their system and just unlock the features!

Again, how is this Apple-like?
It's smart business for a car that doesn't have many physical options to choose from and doesn't want to slow production to have physical options.

Apple has always limited options when it came to interface and usage. They tested what people want (on OCD people like Jobs, IIRC) and forced everyone to comply with it. One button, no option to download files, non-customizable beyond their preselected options, etc.

Except Tesla's interface allows for tons of customization. Indeed, most people I meet don't even know of all the options there. Apple would never allow that...

[Yo ssi]

I believe the comparison of Tesla to Apple came from George Hotz the founder of coma AI. A based opinion.

[yuneeq]

Don't have too much to add besides this. But OP may be one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen here, which is saying something.

Samsung literally used all of these things to advertise how they were better than Apple, and in one fell swoop they killed external storage, magnetic payments, and a charger. AKA, all the things that made them beloved and unique.

Why would I have anything against cutting edge technology? I've used a smartphone since 2002's Samsung i330. I fail to see how killing off features makes something cutting edge. Having SD storage doesn't hurt cloud storage, it's just a money grab for more onboard memory and cloud subscriptions. Battery technology didn't improve by making it non-replaceable, it just helped with planned obsolescence.

Any feature that is unnecessary for most users of a portable device ends up being detrimental for most and low tech. It's not a zero-sum game, but there's opportunity cost (and real costs) to every included feature. Having something like removable batteries may be desirable to a small subset of users, but it takes up space which could be used for more desired features/capabilities and may hurt build quality. It also increases cost which means other features will be excluded or axed to stay within budget. Most people already have chargers at home, car, or work, and are fine with using a battery pack if needed. With the extra space and better build quality, Samsung can pack more tech into the device, while lowering their warranty liability with every device sold.

While removing outdated/unwanted features may save money and you can consider them greedy, in a competitive environment, that saved money will most likely go right back into selling an improved phone for the same price.

[Dan]

Any feature that is unnecessary for most users of a portable device ends up being detrimental for most and low tech. It's not a zero-sum game, but there's opportunity cost (and real costs) to every included feature. Having something like removable batteries may be desirable to a small subset of users, but it takes up space which could be used for more desired features/capabilities and may hurt build quality. It also increases cost which means other features will be excluded or axed to stay within budget. Most people already have chargers at home, car, or work, and are fine with using a battery pack if needed. With the extra space and better build quality, Samsung can pack more tech into the device, while lowering their warranty liability with every device sold.

While removing outdated/unwanted features may save money and you can consider them greedy, in a competitive environment, that saved money will most likely go right back into selling an improved phone for the same price.

Certainly within their rights, though ironic given their extensive advertising showing how they are different than Apple.

I'm not advocating for a boycott as OP ridiculously posits, I'm letting them know why there's no longer anything keeping a 20 year customer loyal to them. If the Note 21 comes without any of these features, I'd guess the Pixel 6 would likely be my next phone, but I'll research it then.

[YitzyS]

I don't know much about Teslas

[Yo ssi]

Any feature that is unnecessary for most users of a portable device ends up being detrimental for most and low tech. It's not a zero-sum game, but there's opportunity cost (and real costs) to every included feature. Having something like removable batteries may be desirable to a small subset of users, but it takes up space which could be used for more desired features/capabilities and may hurt build quality. It also increases cost which means other features will be excluded or axed to stay within budget. Most people already have chargers at home, car, or work, and are fine with using a battery pack if needed. With the extra space and better build quality, Samsung can pack more tech into the device, while lowering their warranty liability with every device sold.

While removing outdated/unwanted features may save money and you can consider them greedy, in a competitive environment, that saved money will most likely go right back into selling an improved phone for the same price.

I believe the above applies specifically to the battery argument, in regards to loosing MST and a sd slot that wouldn't apply IMO.

[Mileager]

I was once discussing the specs of a computer I was thinking of buying with my brother who is an expert. He mentioned a feature the machine didn't have, and I scoffed, saying, "Who needs that anyway?" He answered, "Me. I use that every single day."

Many of us have a tendency to dismiss specs and features others say they need/want, and it's quite arrogant. Many prefer Samsung over Apple because of the flexibility it offers. Even if you understand why Apple chooses to remove some options from their devices, you should still be able to understand why Samsung doing the same would frustrate and annoy many of its users. The fact that said users also enjoy products from other companies has no bearing on their cellphone brand of choice. The crux of your argument is that Tesla is like Apple because it is technologically advanced. So because Dan likes autonomous driving, he can't desire a micro SD slot or replaceable battery because those technologies are not as cutting edge? Should Tesla not use a steering wheel because that's also outdated, or is it ok to use old things while improving other things with modern updates?

I agree with you 100% and would never expect my tastes and likes to be identical to others. Everybody has their own specific use cases and I get that the way I use my phone is vastly different that the way somebody else would.

The crux of my argument is not simply that two companies are technologically advanced. It is rather that we (Dan) seems to be ok sacrificing older, seemingly basic, necessary tech (ability to refuel on any corner in 5 minutes flat) build quality on a $50k car (well documented, even by Dan himself) in the name of pushing the envelope and having the next best thing. If you want Autopilot and weekly software updates, you DO need to sacrifice on some other aspects.
Following the same logic, yes, if you want the latest Samsung (or any OEM for that matter) tech  and features, you will need to sacrifice your SD card slot and removable battery.

Obviously they won't compare apples to apples (no pun intended) and this is just my opinion, but I don't believe one would need to jump through significant mental hoops to see the correlation.

[Mileager]

That's YOUR addition to the discussion, OP makes not such claims.

I happen to agree with this point, even if I didn't spell it out myself.
It is also more along the lines of having a slimmer menu of options in the name of removing headaches and minuscule differences, letting the consumer know that they actually know what is best for them. That they put in the time and energy to think through thousands of use cases and that they are confident the 3-4 specific options will take care of almost everybody's needs.
Obviously they won't hit all specific requests for every consumer, but they are building their brand and making a bet that the consumers they are chasing will agree and pick from those options. Everyone that demands to have more nuanced customizations are welcome to visit the many other vendors.

Also the vertical integration, obviously.

[Mileager]

And why are SD cards outdated?

They may still be relevant in your life or line of work. But the fact that almost all OEMs have removed the port from all phoned and laptops without their being a major uproar, kind of signals it for me.
Also the fact that no company has gone back to offering them after they removed it. Believe it or not, brands do listen to their customer's and will make changes if the market demands it.

[Mileager]

I’m not saying this is the case factually, but it’s possible there are engineering considerations w/r/t battery housings/contacts as well as battery doors. Those might come at the expense of a smaller/lighter device, or a device the same size with a smaller battery.

Don't be so meek. You are 100% right. Not having to create removable housing and a battery door saves massive amount of valuable real estate in the phones (millimeters to be sure, but that's what we are up against in the quest for ever thinner phones).

[Mileager]

It's just like the COVID vaccines, you can't just say what's the risk of taking it, but rather have to weigh it against the risks of not taking it.

What are the benefits and drawbacks of removable/exchangeable batteries, vs the benefits and drawbacks of built-in batteries?

Simply look at what the market tells you. Did you know that early Teslas had/have removable battery packs? Their approach early on was to build stations that you drive into for a quick battery swap. In time they realized that there were many efficiencies to be gained by building in the batteries and working on quickly charging those battery packs (Superchargers).

[Mileager]

Alright lets do this, line by line!

Don't have too much to add besides this. But OP may be one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen here, which is saying something.

Thank you, it is truly an honor to be considered by the nomination committee. I'd like to thank G-d and my wife for bringing me to this day (sorry for the sarcasm, but when you come at me with such harsh words.....) 

Samsung literally used all of these things to advertise how they were better than Apple, and in one fell swoop they killed external storage, magnetic payments, and a charger. AKA, all the things that made them beloved and unique.

I couldn't agree more! A massive PR blunder to be sure. The progression is not too hard to see though:
Apple removes outdated tech>Samsung mocks Apple, gains a few cheap retweets and PR points>Samsung realizes there is a reason Apple made said decision>Samsung removes said social media posts>Samsung mimics Apple's move.
This isn't to start a whole Apple vs. Samsung battle, your opinion is widely known.

Why would I have anything against cutting edge technology? I've used a smartphone since 2002's Samsung i330.

I couldn't agree more! I got a click-wheel iPod Video for my bar mitzvah!

I fail to see how killing off features makes something cutting edge.

Well moving forward does necessitate leaving behind outdated tech, even if it once made sense. I'm sure adjusting to not having a Home button was difficult at first as well. Or a disc drive on your computer. Crazy ideas a mere 4-5 years ago.

Having SD storage doesn't hurt cloud storage, it's just a money grab for more onboard memory and cloud subscriptions. Battery technology didn't improve by making it non-replaceable, it just helped with planned obsolescence.

I don't agree. I'd argue that the hardware necessary for an SD card slot and removable battery housing aren't worth it to placate the few users who still demand such features. And the planned obsolescence argument is rich coming from an Android user with their, what, barely three years of software updates?

Comparing Tesla to Apple is asinine.

I don't believe the comparison to be asinine, a quick Google search will bring up many concurring voices. Simple arguments can be: slim offerings in the name of knowing what is best for the consumer and forcing them to pick from those few options, sleek showrooms that don't include pushy salesmen, and vertical integration, among others.

Elon Musk is as anti-Apple as it gets.

How is Elon Musk anti-Apple? The guy literally uses an iPhone and preaches privacy as a core tenant of the internet...

He listens all day long on Twitter to customer feedback and incorporates it within days. I've fired off several suggestions that were adopted.

Thats great. Elon's PR prowess is unmatched.

For example, he doesn't pretend to know what's best and lock you into it

I'd argue that point heavily. One of the clear parallels between Apple and Tesla is their relatively small line of offerings compared to their competition. They both only offer 3-4 different models, while the competition offers whatever specific customization and flavor tickles their fancy that month.
I'd say that constitutes pretending to know what's best for you. And I say that with utmost respect and appreciation of that ethos, I agree with it 1000%!

so you can drive you car in ICE, creep, or the new excellent hold mode that I helped make happen with suggestions from beta testers. After I suggested a geolocator to know that your car shouldn't lock itself in your garage, he added that. Same for viewing dashcam on the car's screen. Don't like your car changing lanes on it's own when in auto-pilot? You can customize that and decide what you want, not what Apple thinks everyone wants.

All great and novel ideas!

[Mileager]

What does Tesla lock you into?
You can use non-Tesla charging stations. You can plug into your 110 outlet or buy a Tesla charger.
Not sure what you're referring to?

Let's go with the fact that you can't access Tow mode unless you get the $1,000 OEM model ($1,200 for a retrofit).
Or the fact that when you pay for Full Self Driving you can't then take it and transfer it to a new car,  should you want one. It's locked to that car forever.

[lcm]

They may still be relevant in your life or line of work. But the fact that almost all OEMs have removed the port from all phoned and laptops without their being a major uproar, kind of signals it for me.

Dude, you can swap out hard drives on almost any laptop to upgrade space,
People used those ports to read and write sd cards, not as space expansion. (Plugin) sd card readers work and sell quite well...

[Mileager]

I believe the comparison of Tesla to Apple came from George Hotz the founder of coma AI. A based opinion.

That was specifically regarding AI (autopilot tech), not Tesla as a whole IIRC.

[Yo ssi]

That was specifically regarding AI (autopilot tech), not Tesla as a whole IIRC.

Perhaps the only worthy comparison..

[Yehuda57]

Tesla wouldn't sell any cars if refueling wasn't easy. The only time you're sacrificing a little time is on road trips longer than 300 miles, or whatever, and while people do that, it's rare.

I don't think Dan feels he is sacrificing anything (other than perhaps higher costs) to get the Tesla features.

You didn't just say it's a little ironic that Dan is a Tesla fan, you called it hypocrisy. But you have yet to demonstrate what similarities there are between Apple and Tesla in terms of sacrificing outdated features or the vertical eco-system.

... So as I was typing this, you say Apple is comparable to Tesla because of slim offerings. Tesla can barely keep up with the new options when they do make them. You can't compare a car to a phone, creating more options than they already have would be impossible. In terms of features within the cars themselves, what is being sacrificed? And don't say gas stations, setting up a vast charger network is a key part of tesla's operation. They are clearly NOT trying to sacrifice that at all.

[Yehuda57]

Let's go with the fact that you can't access Tow mode unless you get the $1,000 OEM model ($1,200 for a retrofit).
Or the fact that when you pay for Full Self Driving you can't then take it and transfer it to a new car,  should you want one. It's locked to that car forever.

This is about upselling, not locking you into an eco system to the exclusion of others

[Mileager]

Dude, you can swap out hard drives on almost any laptop to upgrade space,
People used those ports to read and write sd cards, not as space expansion. (Plugin) sd card readers work and sell quite well...

Again, in your line of work that may be prevalent. But how many average consumers are going around swapping out hard drives? I consider myself very tech inclined but have somehow never had the need or desire to open up a computer and start fiddling with the guts. I suspect most average consumers are more closely aligned with my experience as a whole.

Open to being wrong on this!

[Mileager]

Tesla wouldn't sell any cars if refueling wasn't easy. The only time you're sacrificing a little time is on road trips longer than 300 miles, or whatever, and while people do that, it's rare.

I don't think Dan feels he is sacrificing anything (other than perhaps higher costs) to get the Tesla features.

You didn't just say it's a little ironic that Dan is a Tesla fan, you called it hypocrisy. But you have yet to demonstrate what similarities there are between Apple and Tesla in terms of sacrificing outdated features or the vertical eco-system.

... So as I was typing this, you say Apple is comparable to Tesla because of slim offerings. Tesla can barely keep up with the new options when they do make them. You can't compare a car to a phone, creating more options than they already have would be impossible. In terms of features within the cars themselves, what is being sacrificed? And don't say gas stations, setting up a vast charger network is a key part of tesla's operation. They are clearly NOT trying to sacrifice that at all.

I hope you know that Tesla doesn't sell a whole lot of cars....they just hit 500k for the year, VW sells that in 3 weeks. As much as we are all fans of new, disruptive, tech it is still a niche product. The share price has everyone believing they are on equal footing with Toyota, Ford, VW when it comes to sales, that's simply incorrect.

I mean in Dan's own articles he mentions how difficult it is to deal with service, production hell etc so it definitely wasn't the white glove service of even a Lexus.

Correct, hypocrisy was a little harsh. Ironic would have been more fair (same argument just not as harsh of a tone).

Tesla doesn't have slim offerings because there is a. production limitation. They purposely only build. those specific cars as theyre research has shown that they are what people want the most. Even with two more factories coming on board relatively soon (Austin and Berlin) I don't believe they will add any new models or options for quite some time (other than the compact they mentioned).
The point is both Apple and Tesla offer a narrow range of options because they believe these are the best options, with the lowest common denominator and it is simply not worth chasing every corner of the market. Their share prices suggest their approach may not be wrong.