Author Topic: Should Rabanim Be Open To Scrutiny?  (Read 11491 times)

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #160 on: January 27, 2021, 12:00:17 AM »
The chofetz chaim is only matir if you are not doing it for pleasure
(not saying that's the case here - and if they are truly espousing avodah zarah they should be condemned from the mountains - just don't want people to think this is a blanket heter)
I don't want to restart the conversation and I'm not saying it's necessarily relevant here, but I came across something you may be interested to know - the Chazon Ish in Igros part 2 letter 133 says discussing transgressions of Gedolim is like אומן על אומנתו
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Should Rabanim Be Open To Scrutiny?
« Reply #161 on: January 27, 2021, 12:24:53 AM »

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Should Rabanim Be Open To Scrutiny?
« Reply #162 on: January 27, 2021, 12:27:37 AM »
It is a fascinating book at the very least

You just need an instruction manual on how to read it. (Or you can stock up on bookmarks).

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Should Rabanim Be Open To Scrutiny?
« Reply #163 on: January 27, 2021, 12:33:31 AM »
My brother in law has a copy and I can get you one if you’d like as well. Everything has a price.

What about the sequel (Anatomy of a Ban)?

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Re: Should Rabanim Be Open To Scrutiny?
« Reply #164 on: January 27, 2021, 12:41:42 AM »
What about the sequel (Anatomy of a Ban)?
Has that as well. My father in law purchased both right when they came out.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline aygart

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Re: Should Rabanim Be Open To Scrutiny?
« Reply #165 on: January 27, 2021, 08:56:08 AM »
Has that as well. My father in law purchased both right when they came out.
There is a prominent mosad which bought a hundred of them when it came out to give out
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Should Rabanim Be Open To Scrutiny?
« Reply #166 on: January 27, 2021, 10:12:15 AM »
There is a prominent mosad which bought a hundred of them when it came out to give out
Philly?
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline aygart

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Re: Should Rabanim Be Open To Scrutiny?
« Reply #167 on: January 27, 2021, 10:37:09 AM »
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Should Rabanim Be Open To Scrutiny?
« Reply #169 on: January 27, 2021, 02:15:43 PM »
To answer my question: https://worldisraelnews.com/were-not-far-from-civil-war-warns-former-chief-rabbi-of-israel/

In Israel, the Litvish party Degel Hatorah is considering running separately than the Chassidish party Agudas Yisroel, for the first time in decades. Unity is very important but sometimes the price is too high.

Quote
בכירים ב'דגל התורה' האשימו היום את אגודת ישראל וטענו כי רוב כוחה של המפלגה הוא מהציבור הליטאי, שלטענתם "אגודת ישראל הפכו מנכס לנטל", כשהם מציינים את התנהלות החסידים בחוק הגיוס וחילוקי הדעות שגרמו לטענתם לאי העברת החוק, וגם להתנהלותם בתקופת הגל הראשון של הקורונה.

ב'דגל' מציינים גם כן את התנהלות החסידים באירועי חתונות הענק, כדוגמת החתונה של דאראג, וגם האלימות כנגד בלשי המשטרה שהציתה את הלהבות בבני ברק.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Should Rabanim Be Open To Scrutiny?
« Reply #170 on: January 27, 2021, 02:31:20 PM »
In Israel, the Litvish party Degel Hatorah is considering running separately than the Chassidish party Agudas Yisroel, for the first time in decades.

That worked out wonderfully for them the last time they tried it.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Should Rabanim Be Open To Scrutiny?
« Reply #171 on: January 27, 2021, 02:34:39 PM »
That worked out wonderfully for them the last time they tried it.
When?
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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Re: Should Rabanim Be Open To Scrutiny?
« Reply #172 on: January 27, 2021, 02:40:46 PM »

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Re: Should Rabanim Be Open To Scrutiny?
« Reply #173 on: January 27, 2021, 03:12:49 PM »
Let's not devolve into the politics board.

Offline Ergel

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Re: Should Rabanim Be Open To Scrutiny?
« Reply #174 on: January 27, 2021, 03:55:26 PM »
I don't want to restart the conversation and I'm not saying it's necessarily relevant here, but I came across something you may be interested to know - the Chazon Ish in Igros part 2 letter 133 says discussing transgressions of Gedolim is like אומן על אומנתו
Can you post it here? Don't have Igros Chazon Ish
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Should Rabanim Be Open To Scrutiny?
« Reply #175 on: January 27, 2021, 04:12:35 PM »
Can you post it here? Don't have Igros Chazon Ish
I can try later but that volume is on Hebrew Books
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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Re: Should Rabanim Be Open To Scrutiny?
« Reply #177 on: January 28, 2021, 04:44:40 AM »
“But how do you explain rising cases among Chareidim in Israel?”
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Offline yfr bachur

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Re: Should Rabanim Be Open To Scrutiny?
« Reply #178 on: January 28, 2021, 09:44:46 AM »
That worked out wonderfully for them the last time they tried it.

Actually, in the last round of municipal elections, in most cities Degel ran separately from Agudah, and did amazingly well.

To summarize a very complicated situation in a few sentences: There are long standing agreements on division of power and representation between the Degel and Aguda. This is both nationally, and in every city with Charedi representation on the town council. Aguda, internally, also has representation agreements between the different chassiduses that make up the Aguda. Most of the Degel/Aguda agreements date back to the 1980s, while much of the internal Aguda agreements date to the 1960-70s.
There is/was dissatisfaction with both these deals, as they are based on the demographic makeup of the Chareidi world at the time the deals were negotiated, which some of the parties feel has changed since then. Obviously the sectors that feel that they will lose out if the deals are renegotiated, resist redoing the deals.
There also are/were claims that some of the parties to the deals are not keeping their side of the bargain, and allegedly cutting there own separate deals with other parties to benefit their sector, at the expense of the common agreed platform and priorities. (Gur and Barkat in Yerusholayim is one of the claims)
Due to this, and other considerations, in many cities Degel ran separately from Aguda. In many places, the degel share of the vote far outstripped the proportions that the deals were based on and in most cities the Degel supported candidate for mayor won over the Aguda supported candidate. (Example: in JLM, degel received 9 vs Agudas 5, when the previous agreement barely gave them parity; Leon, supported by Degel won)

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Re: Should Rabanim Be Open To Scrutiny?
« Reply #179 on: January 28, 2021, 07:49:16 PM »
To summarize a very complicated situation in a few sentences:
Excellently put.

Just to add a lot revolves around the minimum threshold for entering the Kenneset, so at times it was unfeasible for the parties to run separately.

As it stands at 4 seats, I think it wouldn't be likely for both Degel and Aguda to get in (together they get 7-8, and it's probably not split 50:50)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 08:03:54 PM by PlatinumGuy »
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים