Author Topic: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona  (Read 35649 times)

Offline chevron

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Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona
« Reply #100 on: August 15, 2021, 01:56:42 PM »
Thank you for today's daily fun fact!

;)

I can't tell if you're sarcastic or not but
http://lucascountyan.blogspot.com/2018/05/next-year-in-jerusalem-rabbis-handler.html?m=1

The handlers are my mother's family

Back in the day, 1 third of US Jews lived in Jewish community's of 1000 or less

Online AsherO

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Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona
« Reply #101 on: August 15, 2021, 04:03:32 PM »
;)

I can't tell if you're sarcastic or not but
http://lucascountyan.blogspot.com/2018/05/next-year-in-jerusalem-rabbis-handler.html?m=1

The handlers are my mother's family

Back in the day, 1 third of US Jews lived in Jewish community's of 1000 or less

When is back in the day and how many Jews lived in America at the time?
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Offline Euclid

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Offline yuneeq

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Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona
« Reply #103 on: August 17, 2021, 01:17:12 AM »
When is back in the day and how many Jews lived in America at the time?

I don't have any numbers but seems like every time I read about famous Jews their father was a rabbi and they came from somewhere random. Most recently I saw Yacov Maza was from Sheboygan, Wisconsin, while Erik Weisz was from Appleton, Wisconsin and later Milwaukee.
Visibly Jewish

Offline neveryou

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Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona
« Reply #104 on: August 17, 2021, 06:08:21 AM »
I don't have any numbers but seems like every time I read about famous Jews their father was a rabbi and they came from somewhere random. Most recently I saw Yacov Maza was from Sheboygan, Wisconsin, while Erik Weisz was from Appleton, Wisconsin and later Milwaukee.
When the frierdiker rebbe was looking for a place to settle in America, sheboygan was one of the options

Offline Euclid

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Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona
« Reply #105 on: August 17, 2021, 09:05:36 AM »
When the frierdiker rebbe was looking for a place to settle in America, sheboygan was one of the options
Definitely one of the more Yiddish sounding towns in the US.

Online AsherO

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Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona
« Reply #106 on: August 18, 2021, 09:37:07 PM »
Unfortunately that didn't turn out too well.

What percentage of their offsprings are still shomer torah umitzvos?

What percentage of the descendants of urban Jewish immigrants of the time (nobody put a date on it yet) are STU today? I’m not sure the percentage is so different from the smaller Jewish communities.
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Offline biobook

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Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona
« Reply #107 on: August 18, 2021, 10:27:17 PM »
What percentage of the descendants of urban Jewish immigrants of the time (nobody put a date on it yet) are STU today? I’m not sure the percentage is so different from the smaller Jewish communities.
chevron's story was about ancestors in Iowa in the 1890s - 1900s, around the turn of the century.  That was when the major wave of Ashkenazi Jews arrived from Eastern Europe, about 2 million people between 1880 and 1924.  Might be interesting (and easier) to ask the question in the other direction:
Did you have at least one ancestor who immigrated to America between 1880-1924 and lived in a city?  .... in a small community?

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Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona
« Reply #108 on: August 18, 2021, 10:43:45 PM »
chevron's story was about ancestors in Iowa in the 1890s - 1900s, around the turn of the century.  That was when the major wave of Ashkenazi Jews arrived from Eastern Europe, about 2 million people between 1880 and 1924.  Might be interesting (and easier) to ask the question in the other direction:
Did you have at least one ancestor who immigrated to America between 1880-1924 and lived in a city?  .... in a small community?
Some areas now considered to be cities were small communities then and voice versa. One of my grandfathers was in the tiny community of Boro park.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline biobook

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Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona
« Reply #109 on: August 18, 2021, 10:48:08 PM »
Some areas now considered to be cities were small communities then and voice versa. One of my grandfathers was in the tiny community of Boro park.
And later moved to the farming community of Monsey?  :)

Online aygart

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Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona
« Reply #110 on: August 18, 2021, 11:18:10 PM »
And later moved to the farming community of Monsey?  :)
Nope but my other grandfather grew up in the larger community of Schenectady
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online EliJelly

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Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona
« Reply #111 on: August 18, 2021, 11:55:27 PM »
What percentage of the descendants of urban Jewish immigrants of the time (nobody put a date on it yet) are STU today? I’m not sure the percentage is so different from the smaller Jewish communities.
+1. Therefore I find it fascinating that a 6th generation Clevelander is one of the more famous Shomrei torah umitzvos today.

Offline biobook

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Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona
« Reply #112 on: August 19, 2021, 12:04:09 AM »
+1. Therefore I find it fascinating that a 6th generation Clevelander is one of the more famous Shomrei torah umitzvos today.
Which part surprises you?  What had you expected?

Offline Euclid

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Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona
« Reply #113 on: August 19, 2021, 12:10:10 AM »
Which part surprises you?  What had you expected?
The Indians alone are enough to send anyone OTD

Offline biobook

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Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona
« Reply #114 on: August 19, 2021, 12:14:01 AM »
The Indians alone are enough to send anyone OTD
Nah, the Indians were busy hunting the dinosaurs.

Online AsherO

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Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona
« Reply #115 on: August 19, 2021, 12:28:35 AM »
chevron's story was about ancestors in Iowa in the 1890s - 1900s, around the turn of the century.  That was when the major wave of Ashkenazi Jews arrived from Eastern Europe, about 2 million people between 1880 and 1924.  Might be interesting (and easier) to ask the question in the other direction:
Did you have at least one ancestor who immigrated to America between 1880-1924 and lived in a city?  .... in a small community?

Then the 1/3 assertion makes very little sense. 1/3 of 2 million is 600,000, if they lived in communities of less than 1,000 people than that would mean more than 600 organized Jewish communities in rural settings dating back to 1880-1924, that doesn’t sound right.

ETA1: To clarify, 600+ communities doesn’t mean 600+ discrete shuls. In the context of this discussion it would be 600+ towns/villages/settlements with an organized Jewish community.
ETA2: To clarify further, while you can argue that there were 1000 such communities that averaged 50-100 souls each, and they all were so small they disappeared without a trace, that would only account for 50-100k people, you’d need 5-10 times that many such small communities, and thousands of them should have survived.

Bottom line, the 1/3 claim doesn’t make sense, and saying 2 million Jewish emigrants in 1880-1924 (those numbers sound to me like they could be accurate, I’ll trust Biobook) just makes the 1/3 claim sound more farfetched.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 12:38:03 AM by AsherO »
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Offline biobook

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Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona
« Reply #116 on: August 19, 2021, 12:34:07 AM »
Then the 1/3 assertion makes very little sense. 1/3 of 2 million is 600,000, if they lived in communities of less than 1,000 people than that would mean more than 600 organized Jewish communities in rural settings dating back to 1880-1924, that doesn’t sound right.

To clarify, 600+ communities doesn’t mean 600+ discrete shuls. In the context of this discussion it would be 600+ towns/villages/settlements with an organized Jewish community.
How do you define an organized Jewish community? At least ten men?  Ten families?  Two shuls?

Online AsherO

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Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona
« Reply #117 on: August 19, 2021, 12:40:42 AM »
How do you define an organized Jewish community? At least ten men?  Ten families?  Two shuls?

See my final edit. If it was 10 men in a shul, that’s 50 souls (say a wife and three children each on average), in some instances up to double that figure. You’d still need 6,500 such “communities” for the claim to be true. I’d believe it if the date was 1950-1980, but 1880-1924 sounds less likely.
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Offline biobook

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Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona
« Reply #118 on: August 19, 2021, 12:54:32 AM »
See my final edit. If it was 10 men in a shul, that’s 50 souls (say a wife and three children each on average), in some instances up to double that figure. You’d still need 6,500 such “communities” for the claim to be true. I’d believe it if the date was 1950-1980, but 1880-1924 sounds less likely.
I don't know where @chevron got that specific figure.  Is it 1/3 of people were in small communities? Or 1/3 of communities were small?  Here's one source:

Religion and Secularism in America’s Small-Town Jewish Communities,     Lee Shai Weissbach
Revue française d’études américaines 2014/4 (n° 141), pages 95 à 106

"....scholars have long focused their attention almost exclusively on America’s larger urban centers, places such as New York, Boston, Philadelphia, and Chicago. As a result, the experience of small-town Jewish communities in the United States has been largely ignored. This is unfortunate, for up until the period between World War I and World War II, the United States was still an essentially rural country and many observers of American life considered small towns to be the heart and soul of American society, whether they thought of them as ideal dwelling places (reflecting a sort of Jeffersonian worldview) or whether they criticized them for their insularity and provincialism. 

"Moreover, smaller Jewish communities in small-town settings actually constituted the vast majority of Jewish settlements in the United States throughout the late nineteenth century and well into the twentieth. As early as the 1870s, there were already some 136 smaller cities and towns in the U.S. with Jewish populations of at least 100 but fewer than 1,000 individuals, and by 1927 there were nearly 500 triple-digit Jewish communities in America. Some of these smaller communities had been founded by Jewish pioneers from the German states and adjacent areas in the middle decades of the nineteenth century, while the majority were established in the era of mass migration at the turn of the twentieth century by East European immigrants as they fanned out across the land.

"In Massachusetts in the 1920s, for example, when there was a community of some 90,000 Jews in Boston, there were also Jewish settlements of somewhere between 100 and 1,000 individuals in 33 other towns, places such as Chicopee, Fitchburg, Newburyport, North Adams, and Plymouth, locations not usually associated with the American Jewish experience. In Michigan in the 1920s, to take another example, there was a Jewish community of some 75,000 in Detroit, but there were also triple-digit Jewish communities in 19 other places, including towns such as Benton Harbor, Iron Mountain, Kalamazoo, and Muskegon. Small-town Jewish communities were not large enough to command much attention on the national scene, but they were large enough to develop their own identities and their own internal dynamics."

https://www.cairn.info/revue-francaise-d-etudes-americaines-2014-4-page-95.htm?contenu=article


Offline Yehuda57

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Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Casa Grande Arizona
« Reply #119 on: August 19, 2021, 12:56:28 AM »
How do you define a Jewish community?

A sushi place, and enough kids that a cop never walks by without getting asked at least 8 questions.