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#1 Covid isn’t deadly & it only affects the elderly and immunocompromised 

Evidence for:

1) https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/brain-fog-heart-damage-covid-19-s-lingering-problems-alarm-scientists
2) https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768916
3)

Evidence against:


Arguments against:
1)
2)
3)

Corresponding Refutations:
1)
2)
3)

Quote
Of the 100 included patients, 53 (53%) were male, and the mean (SD) age was 49 (14) years. The median (IQR) time interval between COVID-19 diagnosis and CMR was 71 (64-92) days. Of the 100 patients recently recovered from COVID-19, 67 (67%) recovered at home, while 33 (33%) required hospitalization. At the time of CMR, high-sensitivity troponin T (hsTnT) was detectable (greater than 3 pg/mL) in 71 patients recently recovered from COVID-19 (71%) and significantly elevated (greater than 13.9 pg/mL) in 5 patients (5%). Compared with healthy controls and risk factor–matched controls, patients recently recovered from COVID-19 had lower left ventricular ejection fraction, higher left ventricle volumes, and raised native T1 and T2. A total of 78 patients recently recovered from COVID-19 (78%) had abnormal CMR findings, including raised myocardial native T1 (n = 73), raised myocardial native T2 (n = 60), myocardial late gadolinium enhancement (n = 32), or pericardial enhancement (n = 22).



#4 Masks don’t help


Evidence for:


1)

Quote
As of August 11, 24 (23%) Kansas counties had a mask mandate in place, and 81 did not. Mandated counties accounted for two thirds of the Kansas population (1,960,703 persons; 67.3%)*** and were spread throughout the state, although they tended to cluster together. Six (25%) mandated and 13 (16%) nonmandated counties were metropolitan areas.††† Thirteen (54%) mandated counties and seven (9%) nonmandated counties had implemented at least one other public health mitigation strategy not related to the use of masks (e.g., limits on size of gatherings and occupancy for restaurants). During June 1–7, 2020, the 7-day rolling average of daily COVID-19 incidence among counties that ultimately had a mask mandate was three cases per 100,000, and among counties that did not, was four per 100,000 (Table). By the week of the governor’s executive order requiring masks (July 3–9), COVID-19 incidence had increased 467% to 17 per 100,000 in mandated counties and 50% to six per 100,000 among nonmandated counties. By August 17–23, 2020, the 7-day rolling average COVID-19 incidence had decreased by 6% to 16 cases per 100,000 among mandated counties and increased by 100% to 12 per 100,000 among nonmandated counties.



https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947e2.htm

2) https://www.ajtmh.org/view/journals/tpmd/103/6/article-p2400.xml?tab_body=fulltext

3) https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.31.20048652v1.full-text

4) https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818

5) https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(20)30235-8/fulltext

6) Canada:
Quote
We find that, in the first few weeks after implementation, mask mandates are associated with a reduction of 25 percent in the weekly number of new COVID-19 cases.

https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w27891/w27891.pdf



Evidence against:


Arguments against:
1)
2)
3)

Corresponding Refutations:
1)
2)
3)

Author Topic: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies  (Read 9140 times)

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2021, 12:31:26 AM »
You don't have to be a scientist. Pick any jurisdiction in Florida, compare it to a heavily masked one in California.

You're proving my point. Florida had 28k Covid deaths out of 21m residents , California had 45k out of 40m residents which is ~20% more per capita. CA is doing something better than FL.

In terms of current positive tests, average of the last 7 days in California is 32 per 100,000 and Florida is 10% higher at 35. (Despite the fact CA is doing ~1.5x testing compared to Florida)

I was in Florida a few weeks ago and everybody was masked in restaurants, hotels, and supermarkets. I don't think there is that much of a difference in mask mandates / actual mask wearing between CA & FL, despite media partisan hyperbole.




Then do the same in NY in the Bronx and in Brooklyn, or even neighboring areas within Brooklyn itself, where the frum community is largely unmasked and the non Jewish community is masked heavily (double these days), and the death and case rate of the frum communities lies in the middle of the pack.
I would argue frum deaths in NY are greater than non-Jewish, even today. Can you back up your claim with real data?

« Last Edit: February 11, 2021, 12:41:10 AM by PlatinumGuy »
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2021, 12:32:54 AM »
There's two aspects here:
1. I already had COVID (PCR positive or antibody test confirmed) therefore I can go on with my life as I please and I won't infect anyone.
2. Most of my community had COVID so we have he(a)rd immunity and can therefore go on with our lives as we please.
You're right, I tried to limit it for brevity. Everybody is welcome to propose better ideas.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2021, 12:41:53 AM »
You're proving my point. Florida had 28k Covid deaths out of 21m residents , California had 45k out of 40m residents which is ~20% more per capita. CA is doing something better than FL.

In terms of current cases, average of the last 7 days in California is 32 per 100,000 and Florida is 10% higher at 35. (Despite the fact CA is doing 2x testing compared to Florida)

I was in Florida a few weeks ago and everybody was masked in restaurants, hotels, and supermarkets. I don't think there is that much of a difference in mask mandates / actual mask wearing between CA & FL, despite media partisan hyperbole.

I said compare jurisdictions within the state. For example
https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/1357169479617114112

I was in Tampa on Sunday where they had dozens upon dozens of people around ensuring people were masked. A large majority of people were not masked until they were forced to do so entering the stadium. Wherever you were is not indicative or the entire state.


I would argue frum deaths in NY are greater than non-Jewish, even today. Can you back up your claim with real data?

Zip code data is readily available on NY's site.

And again, there are many states on the lower end of the deaths per capita table without enforced mask mandates, and many on the top, like NY, with mass mask compliance.

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Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2021, 12:51:04 AM »
I was in Tampa on Sunday where they had dozens upon dozens of people around ensuring people were masked. A large majority of people were not masked until they were forced to do so entering the stadium.
Wait what? You had tickets???

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2021, 12:57:17 AM »
Wait what? You had tickets???

Perfect way to derail the thread  :P



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Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2021, 12:58:13 AM »
Perfect way to derail the thread  :P
Don't ever try to bury the lede.

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Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2021, 12:58:53 AM »
Perfect way to derail the thread  :P
Also an epic humblebrag.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2021, 12:58:57 AM »
I said compare jurisdictions within the state. For example
https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/1357169479617114112

Seriously cherry picking by county?

Imperial, CA median income is $18,000 and unemployment is 19%. It has 3x Cvoid deaths than the rest of the state. 44% of the county have diabetes & 15% have Asthma . Hispanics and Latinos make up 85% of the county’s population, and they account for 92% of the coronavirus deaths.
 
Collier, FL median income is $31,000 and unemployment is 3.5%. It has 2x less death then the rest of its state.

Sure, mask mandate alone won't stop a pandemic.

there are many states on the lower end of the deaths per capita table without enforced mask mandates, and many on the top, like NY, with mass mask compliance.
All that proves is that other factors may have more influence than masks. It in no way disproves my claim that there is plenty of data that masks are effective and no data that proves masks aren't effective.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2021, 01:00:27 AM »
Another point in comparing FL to CA, we know that travel increases the spread of Covid, and FL has been flooded since March, and especially in winter months. CA, on the other hand, not so much. Do a search for flights to California, and you'll find their number has been cut dramatically, which is not the case for Florida.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2021, 01:03:45 AM »
Seriously cherry picking by county?

Imperial, CA median income is $18,000 and unemployment is 19%. It has 3x Cvoid deaths than the rest of the state. 44% of the county have diabetes & 15% have Asthma . Hispanics and Latinos make up 85% of the county’s population, and they account for 92% of the coronavirus deaths.
 
Collier, FL median income is $31,000 and unemployment is 3.5%. It has 2x less death then the rest of its state.

Sure, mask mandate alone won't stop a pandemic.
All that proves is that other factors may have more influence than masks. It in no way disproves my claim that there is plenty of data that masks are effective and no data that proves masks aren't effective.

I've said repeatedly that masks work, but that masks mandates... Not so much.

Either way, I'm done with this argument, consider me thoroughly debunked on one point. That still doesn't account for the numerous other strawman arguments and inflammatory language.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2021, 01:42:59 AM »
we know that travel increases the spread of Covid
Not really, only if they're coming from somewhere where Covid was more prevalent.

Pax who come from somewhere Covid is less prevalent are making Covid less prevalent where they land.

I've said repeatedly that masks work, but that masks mandates... Not so much.
You have yet to bring a single piece of proof to support that, and haven't disputed the proof I brought.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2021, 01:46:53 AM by PlatinumGuy »
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline yitzgar

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Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2021, 11:18:20 PM »
https://twitter.com/jmcrookston/status/1360040104706859010
Why is that true? Aren't the kids in the community otherwise? So they are part of the 10

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Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2021, 11:21:33 PM »
Why is that true? Aren't the kids in the community otherwise? So they are part of the 10
They are in school in the morning and the community in the afternoon so have the best of both worlds...
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline yitzgar

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Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2021, 11:28:44 PM »
They are in school in the morning and the community in the afternoon so have the best of both worlds...
I guess. They are in the community significantly less if they are spending 6-7 hours a day in school

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Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2021, 12:03:48 AM »
I guess. They are in the community significantly less if they are spending 6-7 hours a day in school
The assumption is that they would be in school as opposed to being home learning on Zoom, not as opposed to being at the mall. Thus increasing spread, not decreasing it.
Quote from: YitzyS
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Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2021, 12:09:16 AM »
(A conversation that’s more common than you’d think)

Him: “Yanky isn’t feeling well today, but don’t worry- it’s not COVID!”
Me: “How do you know it’s not COVID?”
Him:“Come on, why would it be COVID? You never heard of getting a fever? He gets this every year.”
Me: “Why don’t you just test him?”
Him: “I’m not going to test him, I don’t want to have to quarantine!”


.....And that’s when I killed him, Your Honor.
Quote from: YitzyS
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Offline yitzgar

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Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2021, 12:13:17 AM »
(A conversation that’s more common than you’d think)

Him: “Yanky isn’t feeling well today, but don’t worry- it’s not COVID!”
Me: “How do you know it’s not COVID?”
Him:“Come on, why would it be COVID? You never heard of getting a fever? He gets this every year.”
Me: “Why don’t you just test him?”
Him: “I’m not going to test him, I don’t want to have to quarantine!”


.....And that’s when I killed him, Your Honor.
Me: "If he has fever, you should probably test him"
Him: "well if you test every time someone has a headache, you might as well test everyone twice a day"

Offline yuneeq

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Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2021, 02:15:30 AM »
Debunk this


Visibly Jewish

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Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2021, 02:17:00 AM »
Why take a vaccine that’s only 95% effective for a virus that 99.8% survive?
Visibly Jewish