Topic Wiki

#1 Covid isn’t deadly & it only affects the elderly and immunocompromised 

Evidence for:

1) https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/brain-fog-heart-damage-covid-19-s-lingering-problems-alarm-scientists
2) https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768916
3)

Evidence against:


Arguments against:
1)
2)
3)

Corresponding Refutations:
1)
2)
3)

Quote
Of the 100 included patients, 53 (53%) were male, and the mean (SD) age was 49 (14) years. The median (IQR) time interval between COVID-19 diagnosis and CMR was 71 (64-92) days. Of the 100 patients recently recovered from COVID-19, 67 (67%) recovered at home, while 33 (33%) required hospitalization. At the time of CMR, high-sensitivity troponin T (hsTnT) was detectable (greater than 3 pg/mL) in 71 patients recently recovered from COVID-19 (71%) and significantly elevated (greater than 13.9 pg/mL) in 5 patients (5%). Compared with healthy controls and risk factor–matched controls, patients recently recovered from COVID-19 had lower left ventricular ejection fraction, higher left ventricle volumes, and raised native T1 and T2. A total of 78 patients recently recovered from COVID-19 (78%) had abnormal CMR findings, including raised myocardial native T1 (n = 73), raised myocardial native T2 (n = 60), myocardial late gadolinium enhancement (n = 32), or pericardial enhancement (n = 22).



#4 Masks don’t help


Evidence for:


1)

Quote
As of August 11, 24 (23%) Kansas counties had a mask mandate in place, and 81 did not. Mandated counties accounted for two thirds of the Kansas population (1,960,703 persons; 67.3%)*** and were spread throughout the state, although they tended to cluster together. Six (25%) mandated and 13 (16%) nonmandated counties were metropolitan areas.††† Thirteen (54%) mandated counties and seven (9%) nonmandated counties had implemented at least one other public health mitigation strategy not related to the use of masks (e.g., limits on size of gatherings and occupancy for restaurants). During June 1–7, 2020, the 7-day rolling average of daily COVID-19 incidence among counties that ultimately had a mask mandate was three cases per 100,000, and among counties that did not, was four per 100,000 (Table). By the week of the governor’s executive order requiring masks (July 3–9), COVID-19 incidence had increased 467% to 17 per 100,000 in mandated counties and 50% to six per 100,000 among nonmandated counties. By August 17–23, 2020, the 7-day rolling average COVID-19 incidence had decreased by 6% to 16 cases per 100,000 among mandated counties and increased by 100% to 12 per 100,000 among nonmandated counties.



https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947e2.htm

2) https://www.ajtmh.org/view/journals/tpmd/103/6/article-p2400.xml?tab_body=fulltext

3) https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.31.20048652v1.full-text

4) https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818

5) https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(20)30235-8/fulltext

6) Canada:
Quote
We find that, in the first few weeks after implementation, mask mandates are associated with a reduction of 25 percent in the weekly number of new COVID-19 cases.

https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w27891/w27891.pdf



Evidence against:


Arguments against:
1)
2)
3)

Corresponding Refutations:
1)
2)
3)

Author Topic: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies  (Read 9189 times)

Online YitzyS

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 5846
  • Total likes: 14418
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 34
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2021, 07:55:47 AM »
Why take a vaccine that’s only 95% effective for a virus that 99.8% survive?
For the same reason you have Verizon service.

Offline avromie7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 8444
  • Total likes: 2853
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2021, 10:20:32 AM »
https://twitter.com/jmcrookston/status/1360040104706859010
The assumption is that they would be in school as opposed to being home learning on Zoom, not as opposed to being at the mall. Thus increasing spread, not decreasing it.
This assumption is ridiculous. Kids are out and about, causing way more spread than they would if schools would be open.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5128
  • Total likes: 6398
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2021, 10:47:41 AM »
This assumption is ridiculous. Kids are out and about, causing way more spread than they would if schools would be open.

You have to consider that many places are not like the system you live in. For example, when my kid was on Zoom, interaction was limited to people in our neighborhood, and it was always outdoors. Now we're dealing with an indoor classroom, and with kids from 7 other communities. That's a huge difference.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline avromie7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 8444
  • Total likes: 2853
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2021, 10:50:32 AM »
You have to consider that many places are not like the system you live in. For example, when my kid was on Zoom, interaction was limited to people in our neighborhood, and it was always outdoors. Now we're dealing with an indoor classroom, and with kids from 7 other communities. That's a huge difference.
I'm not talking about lakewood, I'm talking about most public school students. There's a reason attendance has been abysmal, and it's not because they're sitting at home all day.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5128
  • Total likes: 6398
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2021, 10:53:53 AM »
I'm not talking about lakewood, I'm talking about most public school students. There's a reason attendance has been abysmal, and it's not because they're sitting at home all day.

Public school kids often come from multiple communities, too. Many of these kids have no circles in common outside of school. And again, there are limited places they can hang out indoors. You can't compare sitting in a classroom with roaming around the city.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying keep schools closed. But don't pretend the transmission rate would be lower if they would be in school.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7584
  • Total likes: 4037
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2021, 11:06:25 AM »
This assumption is ridiculous. Kids are out and about, causing way more spread than they would if schools would be open.
You are asserting that children would be engaging in higher risk activities than attending school for the same duration as they would be attending school, which which you’re almost certainly wrong about (not least because of course the majority are learning on Zoom during that time). It’s more likely that the reason spread is lower in schools is because children themselves are less likely to contract COVID and also less likely to transmit COVID- not because schools themselves are inherently low risk. This applies in non-school settings as well, of course. On the contrary, you’d be hard pressed to find a higher risk activity.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 19196
  • Total likes: 15370
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2021, 11:43:21 AM »
You are asserting that children would be engaging in higher risk activities than attending school for the same duration as they would be attending school, which which you’re almost certainly wrong about (not least because of course the majority are learning on Zoom during that time). It’s more likely that the reason spread is lower in schools is because children themselves are less likely to contract COVID and also less likely to transmit COVID- not because schools themselves are inherently low risk. This applies in non-school settings as well, of course. On the contrary, you’d be hard pressed to find a higher risk activity.
Well, now that there is a new "this administration," lets see how they are doing.

Listening to Fauci science? NOPE!

[tweet]1354856823258492929[/tweet]
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline avromie7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 8444
  • Total likes: 2853
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2021, 12:00:02 PM »
You are asserting that children would be engaging in higher risk activities than attending school for the same duration as they would be attending school, which which you’re almost certainly wrong about (not least because of course the majority are learning on Zoom during that time). It’s more likely that the reason spread is lower in schools is because children themselves are less likely to contract COVID and also less likely to transmit COVID- not because schools themselves are inherently low risk. This applies in non-school settings as well, of course. On the contrary, you’d be hard pressed to find a higher risk activity.
With minor adjustments you can eliminate contact between classes, that would essentially create a bubble around each class making transmission very unlikely. As soon as you let them run loose they're coming into contact with many other people.

I've been saying this for a long time, and I think it's pretty straight forward. People don't spread COVID by coming in contact with the same people every day, it's when a new potentially infected person gets added to the mix that transmission becomes much more likely. The most obvious case in the frum world is weddings, we see people going to shul, work, and stores every day with little transmission. As soon as you add weddings to the mix it starts spreading like crazy.

The same will apply to students, when they're hanging out on the streets they come in contact with new people every day making transmission much more likely.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7584
  • Total likes: 4037
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2021, 02:47:08 PM »
With minor adjustments you can eliminate contact between classes, that would essentially create a bubble around each class making transmission very unlikely. As soon as you let them run loose they're coming into contact with many other people.

I've been saying this for a long time, and I think it's pretty straight forward. People don't spread COVID by coming in contact with the same people every day, it's when a new potentially infected person gets added to the mix that transmission becomes much more likely. The most obvious case in the frum world is weddings, we see people going to shul, work, and stores every day with little transmission. As soon as you add weddings to the mix it starts spreading like crazy.

The same will apply to students, when they're hanging out on the streets they come in contact with new people every day making transmission much more likely.
I agree with you and I also think schools should be open. I’m just not sure the math saying “opening schools reduces spread” is correct.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline avromie7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 8444
  • Total likes: 2853
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2021, 03:35:18 PM »
I agree with you and I also think schools should be open. I’m just not sure the math saying “opening schools reduces spread” is correct.
I don't have the calculations to prove either way, but I think we both agree the math in the tweet is incredibly inaccurate.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7584
  • Total likes: 4037
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #50 on: March 03, 2021, 01:21:47 PM »
“There won’t be a vaccine for at least 5 years”
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 25K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 31367
  • Total likes: 8276
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #51 on: March 03, 2021, 01:55:24 PM »
“There won’t be a vaccine for at least 5 years”

Let’s move the goalposts by saying:

“I was right. There won’t be a vaccine I’ll accept as trustworthy for five years”
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Online PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 15144
  • Total likes: 2462
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #52 on: April 04, 2021, 11:51:57 AM »
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline avromie7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 8444
  • Total likes: 2853
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2021, 10:17:28 AM »
https://twitter.com/imgrund/status/1377709277142511621

Schools don’t spread covid
very strong and consistent cherry picked data.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Online PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 15144
  • Total likes: 2462
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2021, 07:03:32 AM »
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Online Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 5440
  • Total likes: 15426
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2021, 09:53:01 AM »
I know it's not possible to prove a negative, but can we perhaps deal with the fertility claims? Perhaps some of the most common claims and the answers.

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7584
  • Total likes: 4037
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #56 on: August 16, 2021, 10:07:20 AM »
I know it's not possible to prove a negative, but can we perhaps deal with the fertility claims? Perhaps some of the most common claims and the answers.
Is anyone still claiming that? About COVID or the vaccine?
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Online yelped

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2015
  • Posts: 11869
  • Total likes: 4409
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 43
    • View Profile
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2021, 10:16:28 AM »
I know it's not possible to prove a negative, but can we perhaps deal with the fertility claims? Perhaps some of the most common claims and the answers.
By now many people can prove that from personal experience (from people who got the shot and got pregnant a couple of weeks later).

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 69796
  • Total likes: 18668
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2021, 10:23:45 AM »
By now many people can prove that from personal experience (from people who got the shot and got pregnant a couple of weeks later).
My friend got COVID and the shot and his wife got the shot and they conceived afterward. I think the future of humanity will be OK :)
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Online Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 5440
  • Total likes: 15426
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: DDF Mythbusters: The 10 Covid Fallacies
« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2021, 10:28:20 AM »
Is anyone still claiming that? About COVID or the vaccine?

Vaccine. This is the single biggest concern among frum women. Even staunch pro vaccine women are not taking the covid vaccine because of it.

By now many people can prove that from personal experience (from people who got the shot and got pregnant a couple of weeks later).

That's anecdotal. Way more people can prove from personal experience that it messed with their cycles. There's a very direct line from menstruation to fertility. (I'm not saying it does cause problems, aderabe.)

But I'm wondering if there's a place with clear succinct debunking of the myth, or if we can perhaps create one.