Author Topic: Ivermectin  (Read 3168 times)

Offline Lurker

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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2021, 01:15:56 PM »
A couple of points:

All good and well, but none of it backs up your original statement. IMO, your day job gives you a greater responsibility with how you present these things. Do you really want to responsibility of someone telling his family, friends, and community that he heard from a medical researcher that Ivermectin is almost as effective as the vaccines and everyone should be taking it?
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2021, 01:49:03 PM »
Still, there is no evidence that there is a global conspiracy and widespread fraud going on in favor of Ivermectin.

But, there is

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/90552

there has not been a single study to date showing that it was not effective. (Of course, if someone is motivated to do so, he can easily create such a study by altering the treatment protocol or cohort of patients being treated, and make it designed to fail). One reason why this is relevant is because at this stage, if a study would prove lack of effect it would be surprising and be a sort of man bites dog type of headline. Is it reasonable to assume at this point that while 100% of the 42 studies to date reported positive effects it was all because of methodology limitations?

1) https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30464-8/fulltext#seccesectitle0019

2) https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0242184


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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2021, 01:49:42 PM »
Sounds to me like an issue of small sample size.
A flaw that renders it useless.
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Offline yitzgar

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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2021, 01:52:38 PM »
A flaw that renders it useless.
Not necessarily bogus, though

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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2021, 01:55:01 PM »
Not necessarily bogus, though

Demonstrating an effect in a sample size that behaves 4x differently than global averages is bogus proof.

Imagine if I told you average IQ is 145 and only measured a room with 10 billionaires in it.
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Online Euclid

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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2021, 01:57:03 PM »
Mods can we split this thread into an Ivermectin thread?

(And move the Czar Cuomo one to Politics)

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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2021, 01:57:45 PM »
A flaw that renders it useless.
They were very specific about the purpose of the study-that it should be reviewed further for more complete and useful data. The sample size is not very important at that point in the game.
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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2021, 01:59:11 PM »
The sample size is not very important at that point in the game.
It is very important if your sample size behaves dramatically different than average Covid patients.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2021, 05:51:15 PM »
Mods can we split this thread into an Ivermectin thread?

(And move the Czar Cuomo one to Politics)
Done
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Online S209

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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2021, 06:22:32 PM »
FYI: I am not a doctor but a researcher. I study stats and data. My primary expertise is discovering stff that is not yet well known. Often it's undiscovered because it's counterintuitive.
Are you a paid medical researcher, or you mean you research as a hobby? Would you post your credentials? I find it very hard to believe.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 06:33:34 PM by S209 »
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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2021, 03:02:22 AM »

Based on global averages, out of 110 household contacts, you’d expect 30 Covid infections, and around 15 of them symptomatic.

This study found 4x global averages. That is an irreconcilable discrepancy.

It is either fundamentally flawed or intentionally fraudulent, and either way it is completely bogus.

Based on global averages, the human male is 5' 9.3".  So a male claiming to be 6' 8" is bogus?

You seem to be suggesting that an average found for a large population need apply to every small sample studied, which I'm sure you realize is not so.  The 58% value they give is within the range of values found in the JAMA paper.  Furthermore, the authors admit that they diagnosed covid based on symptoms (and blood tests and scans) and not PCR, so the actual number of covid cases was probably lower.

Quote

Standing up for something that is way outside the realm of possibility isn’t thoughtful discourse.
I'm not defending this paper, which provides only weak evidence for using ivermectin.

I'm standing up for the idea that we can critique the specifics of a research article, rather than simply dismiss it out of hand, based on the country where it was done, or the weaknesses in the experimental design.  No research study is perfect - What's important is to understand just what the limitations are.  I don't see such a discussion as being outside the realm of possibility. 

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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2021, 09:13:41 AM »
Based on global averages, the human male is 5' 9.3".  So a male claiming to be 6' 8" is bogus?

@Something Fishy, can you settle that for us? Theres a lot of doors on a ship in Antarctica that bear an imprint of your head that would seem to prove you're not bogus.... :P

Offline Lurker

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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2021, 09:19:33 AM »
@Something Fishy, can you settle that for us? Theres a lot of doors on a ship in Antarctica that bear an imprint of your head that would seem to prove you're not bogus.... :P

I believe they also prove you don't build ships for outliers  ;)
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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2021, 10:52:05 AM »
you don't build ships for outliers  ;)

They do, they’re called  yachts.

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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2021, 12:58:52 PM »
Based on global averages, the human male is 5' 9.3".  So a male claiming to be 6' 8" is bogus?
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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2021, 12:59:19 PM »
Based on global averages, the human male is 5' 9.3".  So a male claiming to be 6' 8" is bogus?.
Claiming a random sample of 110 people had an average height of 6.8' is indeed bogus. It's not representative of anything, and it's irrelevant if the stat was manipulated maliciously or coincidentally.

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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2021, 01:36:05 PM »
Claiming a random sample of 110 people had an average height of 6.8' is indeed bogus. It's not representative of anything, and it's irrelevant if the stat was manipulated maliciously or coincidentally.
I disagree that it’s *impossible*, but I agree the “study” is highly suspect and not really believable.

In general I’ve found the information and “research” and “facts” posted in this thread about Ivermectin sorely lacking and disingenuous. Look no further than the links provided.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2021, 05:22:57 PM »
Claiming a random sample of 110 people had an average height of 6.8' is indeed bogus. It's not representative of anything, and it's irrelevant if the stat was manipulated maliciously or coincidentally.


Unless the small group was comprised of 3 families, each with tall genetics.
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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2021, 09:30:00 PM »
I disagree that it’s *impossible*, but I agree the “study” is highly suspect and not really believable.

The whole world may be mistaken and today is Monday, it's just very improbable. It's much more likely an Egyptian study is dishonest or very poorly designed.

Unless the small group was comprised of 3 families, each with tall genetics.

Right, but this is a control. They took 200 people and give them Ivermectin, and when Covid hit them at the same rate as global averages of household contacts, they claimed Ivermectin helped by comparing them to a control group that had  Covid attack rate 4x global averages.

It's a joke.
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Re: Ivermectin
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2021, 04:43:50 PM »
Is anyone surprised that @Chaimel6 has gone silent?


Meanwhile "Somech Corona Support" hung signs in Lakewood shuls about Invermectin and....... (drum roll)......... Vitamin D.


Quote
Ivermectin it has now been proven in study after study to not only effectively treat corona at all stages but also to prevent people who are exposed from becoming sick. Only one pill a week is needed. Many local physicians have been following these developments and now prescribing Ivermectin.
Vitamin D, Zinc, Vitamin C and Quercetin- If you don't want to take a prescription you should be taking a few simple vitamins which have been proven in numerous studies to lower the rate of infection. Vitamin D is one of the easiest ways to ward off, and also treat Coronavirus. A recent report states that a staggering 9 out of 10 Corona deaths could have been prevented with proper vitamin D levels. for more details call somech 212-419-8189
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