Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?

[Lurker]

Well to be considered shomer shabbos it just needs to be beparhesia

Not true and not relevant.

[neveryou]

Not true and not relevant.

How do you think they get mashgichim?

[Lurker]

How do you think they get mashgichim?

They ask who's careful to keep shabbos b'farhesia? 

[yerushabubby]

Well to be considered shomer shabbos it just needs to be beparhesia

It probably depends on the situation, as well as who you ask.  I know of a situation where a young man was not frum, but took pains to hide his chillul Shabbos from his family.  The parents were told that they did not need to worry about their son handling wine etc in the home, but he could not be motzei anyone with his Kiddush or Havdalla.

[Something Fishy]

The parents were told that they did not need to worry about their son handling wine etc in the home

I know someone who only uses mevushal wine when his son is in the house, as this son uses the Boro Park eruv.



(How many degrees of separation are we from the OP at this point ?)

[Yehuda57]

I know someone who only uses mevushal wine when his son is in the house, as this son uses the Boro Park eruv.



(How many degrees of separation are we from the OP at this point ?)

I would only use mevushal wine if I was eating with someone who only uses mevushal wine when his son is in the house as this son uses the Boro Park eruv.

[EliJelly]

I know someone who only uses mevushal wine when his son is in the house, as this son uses the Boro Park eruv.

NK insider story

[drosenberg88429]

Is surviving abuse something you think needs to be disclosed before any dates? At what point should it be brought up? I'm assuming you don't expect to see it on a résumé...

Definitely needs to be disclosed at some point, with authoritative rabbinical guidance. It's at least as pertinent to a marriage as most manageable medical and psychiatric conditions.

[Lurker]

NK insider story

Speaking of not sharing pictures...  Full circle, ladies and gentlemen! Well done!

[Lurker]

Definitely needs to be disclosed at some point, with authoritative rabbinical guidance. It's at least as pertinent to a marriage as most manageable medical and psychiatric conditions.

Of course it needs to be disclosed. The question is at which point.

[drosenberg88429]

I dispute the notion that an OTD sibling should be a flag for abuse. We cry about having an OTD crisis, an abuse crisis, a parnassah crisis, a mental health crisis, a drug crisis, an education crisis, a leadership crisis, a technology crisis, and 10,000 other crises. All of these are causes for people going OTD. In Lubavitch today, I'd venture to say that more than 30% of all families have an OTD kid. I say 30%, but I personally believe it's double that. I don't believe this is super unique to Lubavitch. Honestly, if someone sends me a perfect résumé with no "flags", that's the biggest flag of all. That people hear "abuse" when someone says "OTD" is so wrong on so many levels.

In the yeshivish community I populate, it's lower than 30%. However, I'm sure that more than 30% of families have a child that was abused. In the general population, about 16% of kids are abused during childhood. Even if the number is half that in our circles, that's still way over 30% of families. Dismissing every shidduch because you happen to know about an abused sibling is like assuming every household with married parents has shalom bayis. It's not realistic.

[neveryou]

They ask who's careful to keep shabbos b'farhesia? 

Speak to people involved in kashrus for wine, the ones that do production for a few months at a time. They get "bochrim" to do the work.

[EliJelly]

Speak to people involved in kashrus for wine, the ones that do production for a few months at a time. They get "bochrim" to do the work.

Are ''bochrim'' a term for mechalelei shabbosos b'tzinah?? I hope not

[Lurker]

In the yeshivish community I populate, it's lower than 30%. However, I'm sure that more than 30% of families have a child that was abused. In the general population, about 16% of kids are abused during childhood. Even if the number is half that in our circles, that's still way over 30% of families. Dismissing every shidduch because you happen to know about an abused sibling is like assuming every household with married parents has shalom bayis. It's not realistic.

+1.

Re the 30%, I have no real idea what the numbers are in any given community.  What I do know is that the numbers are higher than most people assume. People would be shocked at what goes on in certain sub-groups within many communities, and IME it's more widespread than you'd think. Have a real open conversation with people in the more chilled groups in your community if you really want to know more.

[Lurker]

Speak to people involved in kashrus for wine, the ones that do production for a few months at a time. They get "bochrim" to do the work.

All I know is that if you know someone is not shomer shabbos, even if they are careful not to do anything in public, their kitchen is not considered kosher. There are heterim, but you don't need a heter for a shomer shabbos...

Regardless, we're not getting into the halachic technicalities. Someone who isn't keeping shabbos, even in private, is not "on the derech."

[aygart]

Of course.

I've gone out 5 times with a guy and it meant nothing.

what do you mean by "it meant nothing"? At what point was it clear that it meant nothing?

[aygart]

Well to be considered shomer shabbos it just needs to be beparhesia

Without accepting the premise, what about farhesia when out of the parent's town?

[drosenberg88429]

+1.

Re the 30%, I have no real idea what the numbers are in any given community.  What I do know is that the numbers are higher than most people assume. People would be shocked at what goes on in certain sub-groups within many communities, and IME it's more widespread than you'd think. Have a real open conversation with people in the more chilled groups in your community if you really want to know more.

Abuse has nothing to do with chilled or not chilled. It doesn't really discriminate by religious denomination. It's rampant everywhere, whether we'd like to admit it or not.

[Lurker]

Abuse has nothing to do with chilled or not chilled. It doesn't really discriminate by religious denomination. It's rampant everywhere, whether we'd like to admit it or not.

Two separate comments. "+1" on the abuse. The chilled thing was regarding what you said about less than 30% of families having an OTD family member in your community. IMO, they are completely different issues that just happen to have some crossover.

[Dan]

30% sounds high to me, but who knows.