Author Topic: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?  (Read 22426 times)

Online whacked1

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #360 on: May 07, 2021, 11:21:47 AM »

You mention 2 cases, one where you "know" that you won't be marrying someone after a few hours, and where you like some things but it "didn't go well".

What percentage of ppl who want to reject is the 1st and what is the 2nd?

I disagree that at 20-something with little relationship experience, you can "know" with absolute certainty that someone isn't for you after a few (usually awkward) hours.
If that's your attitude, by all meant don't go out again, as you'll just hurt her by going on a "pity" date!

BUT, If you are willing to properly examine your thoughts with an open mind, and not take this "knowing" as absolute, understanding that that things you "know" can and will change as you get to know someone better, than you owe it to yourself and to her to go out again.
It's not second-guessing yourself, it's an understanding that even when you FEEL that your mind is made up, that's not always the case. (This is also an essential skill in marriage IMO).
I don't know how many times you've has bad 1st dates, but the above is written from experience.

If the problem is that you have conflicting values by all means don't go again, and try to get better research next time to minimize those encounters.
How many people say no to someone based off a somewhat "off-colored" comment by a reference? If they would only know the personality of the prospect (and/or the person giving the info), its very well a perfect match. IMO a lot more matches are killed for foolish reasons prior to the couple meeting, then after a 1st date.

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #361 on: May 07, 2021, 11:27:30 AM »
It's arguable that as long as you are mature enough to be able to compromise, hear another person's perspective, and work together, there is limited maturity necessary for marriage. One doesn't need to be a finished product, and quite possibly being a finished product and completely mature is counterproductive to growing and molding together. Someone who has been living on their own completely autonomously for a decade will have a significantly more difficult time adjusting to marriage than 2 young impressionable malleable kids.

As someone who lived on his own for almost 10 years before getting married, I don't necessarily agree with that, and definitely not as a blanket statement. It's very much dependent on the individual.
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Offline Zalc

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #362 on: May 07, 2021, 11:28:14 AM »
How many people say no to someone based off a somewhat "off-colored" comment by a reference? If they would only know the personality of the prospect (and/or the person giving the info), its very well a perfect match. IMO a lot more matches are killed for foolish reasons prior to the couple meeting, then after a 1st date.
While this is very true, it does not have to do with reasons to cancel after a 1st date...

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #363 on: May 07, 2021, 11:30:22 AM »
Meaning that in general, you think that it's better to say no before a first date than after a first date.

Many would take very strong exception to this.
By definition usually you say no before a 1st date.... Based on the resume and research!

Unless I'm not understanding what you mean?

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #364 on: May 07, 2021, 11:46:29 AM »
By definition usually you say no before a 1st date.... Based on the resume and research!

Unless I'm not understanding what you mean?

Exactly. Many people would say doing so kills a lot more options that have real potential than saying no after a first date does.

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #365 on: May 07, 2021, 12:45:33 PM »
It's arguable that as long as you are mature enough to be able to compromise, hear another person's perspective, and work together, there is limited maturity necessary for marriage. One doesn't need to be a finished product, and quite possibly being a finished product and completely mature is counterproductive to growing and molding together. Someone who has been living on their own completely autonomously for a decade will have a significantly more difficult time adjusting to marriage than 2 young impressionable malleable kids.
As someone who lived on his own for almost 10 years before getting married, I don't necessarily agree with that, and definitely not as a blanket statement. It's very much dependent on the individual.

While individual circumstances might be different, I strongly believe (and my mechutenste who has a wedding gown business, and gets to see many kallahs, concurs) that it is much healthier and easier to get married young and to mature together as a couple. The older people get, and the more their own habits and ideas get ingrained in them, the harder it might be to build a harmonious home.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #366 on: May 07, 2021, 12:49:46 PM »
As someone who lived on his own for almost 10 years before getting married, I don't necessarily agree with that, and definitely not as a blanket statement. It's very much dependent on the individual.


While individual circumstances might be different, I strongly believe (and my mechutenste who has a wedding gown business, and gets to see many kallahs, concurs) that it is much healthier and easier to get married young and to mature together as a couple. The older people get, and the more their own habits and ideas get ingrained in them, the harder it might be to build a harmonious home.
Same reason why long-haulers in shidduchim have a harder time as time goes on. With each date they get more and more particular about what they're looking for...whether that person actually exists or not becomes the problem.
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Offline pbf

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #367 on: May 07, 2021, 12:54:36 PM »
Same reason why long-haulers in shidduchim have a harder time as time goes on. With each date they get more and more particular about what they're looking for...whether that person actually exists or not becomes the problem.

Please stop perpetuating this myth. It's simply untrue

Offline coffeebean

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #368 on: May 07, 2021, 12:57:05 PM »
Same reason why long-haulers in shidduchim have a harder time as time goes on. With each date they get more and more particular about what they're looking for...whether that person actually exists or not becomes the problem.
I think the opposite. People who are very particular in the beginning tend to only get engaged later on not because they found the "perfect" match, rather because they realize no one is perfect.

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #369 on: May 07, 2021, 01:03:16 PM »
While individual circumstances might be different, I strongly believe (and my mechutenste who has a wedding gown business, and gets to see many kallahs, concurs) that it is much healthier and easier to get married young and to mature together as a couple. The older people get, and the more their own habits and ideas get ingrained in them, the harder it might be to build a harmonious home.

I understand the arguments for getting married earlier, and they definitely have merit. However, I feel that there are many merits to waiting until mid-20s as opposed to early 20s or late teens. There is no one-size-fits-all here, and I think we need to stop looking at it as goal for everyone to be married early and start focusing on what's best for the individual. Generalizations in shidduchim (like in most things) hurt the wider community.
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Offline pbf

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #370 on: May 07, 2021, 01:07:30 PM »
I understand the arguments for getting married earlier, and they definitely have merit. However, I feel that there are many merits to waiting until mid-20s as opposed to early 20s or late teens. There is no one-size-fits-all here, and I think we need to stop looking at it as goal for everyone to be married early and start focusing on what's best for the individual. Generalizations in shidduchim (like in most things) hurt the wider community.

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #371 on: May 07, 2021, 01:18:22 PM »
Someone who has been living on their own completely autonomously for a decade will have a significantly more difficult time adjusting to marriage than 2 young impressionable malleable kids.
Source?

The older people get, and the more their own habits and ideas get ingrained in them, the harder it might be to build a harmonious home.
Source?

Same reason why long-haulers in shidduchim have a harder time as time goes on. With each date they get more and more particular about what they're looking for...whether that person actually exists or not becomes the problem.
Source?

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #372 on: May 07, 2021, 01:21:10 PM »
Source?
Anecdotal. Family and friends.
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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #373 on: May 07, 2021, 01:26:26 PM »
Anecdotal. Family and friends.

You think anecdotal is going to convince @biobook ;D? You must be new here.
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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #374 on: May 07, 2021, 01:29:36 PM »
To be fair, what percentage of people are actually old, mature, and wise enough to get married (at what, 17-23 years old?) vs getting married before then because if you wait you'll only have the "leftovers?"
THey will weed out all of those willing to get married before they mature.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #375 on: May 07, 2021, 01:31:41 PM »
Source?
Source?
Source?

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #376 on: May 07, 2021, 01:33:03 PM »
Anecdotal. Family and friends.
These sound like easily researchable questions.  I would expect a community that puts such an emphasis on marriage to be more proactive in learning what factors facilitate and impede that goal, rather than relying on anecdotes.

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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #377 on: May 07, 2021, 01:33:24 PM »
These sound like easily researchable questions.  I would expect a community that puts such an emphasis on marriage to be more proactive in learning what factors facilitate and impede that goal, rather than relying on anecdotes.
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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #378 on: May 07, 2021, 01:35:04 PM »
These sound like easily researchable questions.  I would expect a community that puts such an emphasis on marriage to be more proactive in learning what factors facilitate and impede that goal, rather than relying on anecdotes.

As a community, we focus more on trying to contain or put out fires rather than prevent them.
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Re: Would this change the shidduch picture conversation?
« Reply #379 on: May 07, 2021, 01:35:47 PM »
These sound like easily researchable questions.  I would expect a community that puts such an emphasis on marriage to be more proactive in learning what factors facilitate and impede that goal, rather than relying on anecdotes.

"The thing I have noticed is when the anecdotes and the data disagree, the anecdotes are usually right. There's something wrong with the way you are measuring it." - Jeff Bezos