Something Fishy's First Trip to Israel - Planning Thread

[aygart]

And I don't get why people get so worked over it.

I don't get worked up.

[aygart]

Like R Chaim's wife?

Is that so clear? Even if it is, that could have been because of what so many Israelis would call her no matter what.

[Dan]

I don't get worked up.

Why is it a pet peeve?

ETA: I write Kotel just to see you and @ExGingi get worked up every time I do it

[aygart]

Why is it a pet peeve?

Because I the zionist influence bothers me.

[Dan]

Because I the zionist influence bothers me.

Or as the Jacobson brothers farbrenged tonight in Tut Altz on another topic regarding the need for unity, some people still act like the remote Japanese soldier who was still shooting at US planes years after the war, because he was never told that the war was over.

[aygart]

Why is it a pet peeve?

I write Kotel just to see you and @ExGingi get worked up every time I do it

I really do that every time? The only reason I wrote anything here was for the context. Even @ExGingi wrote kotel.

[aygart]

It is still zionist influence.

[Dan]

I really do that every time? The only reason I wrote anything here was for the context. Even @ExGingi wrote kotel.

Satmar doesn't visit the Kotel AFAIK.

Can anyone explain why people who normally use regular ashkenaz havarah still call it the Kotel (or use the name Batsheva etc.)?

Not even in Croatia?

[Euclid]

Is that so clear? Even if it is, that could have been because of what so many Israelis would call her no matter what.

Not that the Artscroll biography is gospel, but they use Batsheva - and the authors were bnei bayis there. I can ask him next time I see him.

[EliJelly]

I'm sure you know what Osgevepede seltzer is. I don't see Zionism as a threat anymore. 🤷‍♂️ And I definitely don't see that visiting the Kosel today would make anyone more Zionistic or not or give support to the Zionist ideology.

The ban on visiting the Kosel will impede a satmar guy of making this bracha בשם ומלכות forever

69. Lehadlik Ner Shel Yom Hazikaron Veyom Ha'atzma'ut
70. Our Yom Ha'atzma'ut cake

[ExGingi]

I'm sure you know what Osgevepede seltzer is. I don't see Zionism as a threat anymore. 🤷‍♂️ And I definitely don't see that visiting the Kosel today would make anyone more Zionistic or not or give support to the Zionist ideology.

Zionism isn't a threat and visiting the Koisel doesn't make one more Zionistic or give support to the Zionist ideology.

But it is important that young people realize what is wrong with Zionism, lest they get wrong ideas into their head.

[ExGingi]

I really do that every time? The only reason I wrote anything here was for the context. Even @ExGingi wrote kotel.

The reason I wrote it was in context of it being Zionist propaganda.

Just like I differentiate between לשון הקודש and עברית (or should it be spelled איווריט? 😛) so too do I differentiate between the כותל המערבי and the kotel.

[JlmBoi]

100%. We have nothing to gain at this point from Kanuis, and we as a group and all of Klal Yisroel only lose from it. Israel could have looked much different (better) if it wasn't for the Kanuis of recent years. I'm not even talking about the baryanim who have nothing with frumkeit and Yidden in the first place, but just live to set fires and yell gevald.

Totally separate from the kosel discussion and kanaus, I still see a big zionist influence on the young frum population. In many circles the frum identity has become intertwined with the Israeli identity. I personally know many people that embraced modern zionism (not the ideology, more the social identity) and aren't aware at all that that's what it is. In their eyes they are just getting with the times. Part of a strong frum identity is what it's not. Of course when thats overdone you have people that won't go to the kosel but won't ask twice about a restaurant hechsher. That doesn't mean it's not a issue.

[yitzgar]

Not that the Artscroll biography is gospel, but they use Batsheva - and the authors were bnei bayis there. I can ask him next time I see him.

My guess is that people using expressions like gospel is also on aygarts pet peeves list

[Ergel]

My guess is that people using expressions like gospel is also on aygarts pet peeves list

My guess is you are wrong

[aygart]

That looks like the same context

[yelped]

Zionism isn't a threat and visiting the Koisel doesn't make one more Zionistic or give support to the Zionist ideology.

But it is important that young people realize what is wrong with Zionism, lest they get wrong ideas into their head.

Fine. How about focus on what's right so we don't stay stuck in Galus forever (I didn't mean the shita of the Zionists now)?

[Mikes@Micro]

How about the kosel katan? You can go thru shar shechem... not the safest but I've done it. If you go on 17 tamuz I'm sure other people would be going too.
Also officially close to the kodesh kedashim.

It is close. Dont think its dangerous anymore. Ateret Kohanim has a yeshiva on the same block.

Kever Yosef in Shechem. (I believe they go around Rosh Chodesh). A very very different experience then typical kvarim hopping.

Tapuach, Yitzhar, Itamar, Elon Moreh.. meet/speak to the "Hilltop Youth"

Great trip! Swarms of heavily armed soldiers, etc

Kotel and Chevron are propaganda?

They are certainly used for propoganda.... Go at the end of Av when they have IDF induction ceremonies.... Make sure to bring a barf bag. You will need it.

[Dan]

Great trip! Swarms of heavily armed soldiers, etc
They are certainly used for propoganda.... Go at the end of Av when they have IDF induction ceremonies.... Make sure to bring a barf bag. You will need it.

So, once a year there's IDF propaganda, so full a whole year you give them tefisas mokum and free propaganda?

[Mikes@Micro]

Fine. How about focus on what's right so we don't stay stuck in Galus forever (I didn't mean the shita of the Zionists now)?

It may not be a threat in many communities in the US but there are others where it is a serious threat. Recently had a conversation with a modox teenager who was considering going to the army despite his own admission that it caused his older brother to drop yiddishkeit. Couldnt wrap his mind around the two: "I know this is bad, Yet I know its a Mitva (ie Tzivui Hashem)."

In Eretz Yisroel it is a MUCH BIGGER ISSUE. Yes, even today there are powerful people who would like nothing more than for a/t and e/t Jewish to dissapear and idk Yerushalayim is precieved by the world as say, another Paris?