Vaccine Mandates

[Euclid]

Your mind is running wild. How about your medical is not covered if you are not wearing your seatbelt?
Let's have examples that make a little sense at least. 

We're living in the middle of an insanely expensive pandemic emergency - let's not start comparing and worrying about other insurance concerns that would need to go through massive litigation before anything changes. Let's stay focused on the implementation of this approach...IMO.

[CountValentine]

We're living in the middle of an insanely expensive pandemic emergency - let's not start comparing and worrying about other insurance concerns that would need to go through massive litigation before anything changes. Let's stay focused on the implementation of this approach...IMO.

I would love to focus on this, but you are going to get every insane idea thrown at you to distract.

[Yehuda57]

Let's say they would build that into this: you need to get your titers checked every 6 months, would you agree with the approach?

(That would be more akin to the dental scenario you're concerned about.)

No. We don't do it for dental checkups either, and there are no adverse reactions or unknown risk factors to a dental checkup. And that's one example out of who knows how many.

That was also one of the things I mentioned. What about age? Does a 5 year old need to be vaccinated or lose coverage? Maybe if a teen boy chooses to get vaccinated they don't get covered for myocarditis?

I know of an infant in hospital now with flu. If his parents she siblings didn't get the flu shot should he be denied coverage?

Maybe, and this is crazy talk, instead of looking for ways to force people to get the vaccine, they can use that energy to figure out why people even need to be forced in the midst of a global pandemic in the first place.

[aygart]

Maybe, and this is crazy talk, instead of looking for ways to force people to get the vaccine, they can use that energy to figure out why people even need to be forced in the midst of a global pandemic in the first place.

THIS

[Euclid]

Maybe, and this is crazy talk, instead of looking for ways to force people to get the vaccine, they can use that energy to figure out why people even need to be forced in the midst of a global pandemic in the first place.

Agree wholeheartedly - but to fix the root cause is going to take a lot longer than using a stick. Time which we don't have.
They're also not mutually exclusive goals.

[Euclid]

Maybe better idea would be to raise the premiums for unvaccinated? Similar to tobacco users.

[Yehuda57]

They're also not mutually exclusive goals.

I'm afraid they are. I can send you 20 names of people who are not getting vaccinated precisely because of "the stick" approach.

Like any teacher or parent has found out, even when it appears the stick is achieving short term successes, it is being counter productive in the short term as well as producing disastrous long term effects.

[CountValentine]

I'm afraid they are. I can send you 20 names of people who are not getting vaccinated precisely because of "the stick" approach.

So if there was no mandate they would get vaccinated?

[Yehuda57]

So if there was no mandate they would get vaccinated?

If they were encouraged to by doctors/people they respect. Those encouragements are worthless now, as they are just coming from the side that is (in their eyes) trying to take away just about every freedom they have, or the side "with the stick", as Euclid put it.

[CountValentine]

If they were encouraged to by doctors/people they respect. Those encouragements are worthless now, as they are just coming from the side that is (in their eyes) trying to take away just about every freedom they have, or the side "with the stick", as Euclid put it.

There is a word for that way of thinking and I will leave it at that.

[Euclid]

I'm afraid they are. I can send you 20 names of people who are not getting vaccinated precisely because of "the stick" approach.

Like any teacher or parent has found out, even when it appears the stick is achieving short term successes, it is being counter productive in the short term as well as producing disastrous long term effects.

This sucks.

[Eli911]

I'm afraid they are. I can send you 20 names of people who are not getting vaccinated precisely because of "the stick" approach.

Like any teacher or parent has found out, even when it appears the stick is achieving short term successes, it is being counter productive in the short term as well as producing disastrous long term effects.

If they didn't already get the vaccine, this isn't going to be the final straw. It's just another excuse.

At least the example you provided correctly demonstrates their maturely level.

[aygart]

If they were encouraged to by doctors/people they respect. Those encouragements are worthless now, as they are just coming from the side that is (in their eyes) trying to take away just about every freedom they have, or the side "with the stick", as Euclid put it.

I think there is much more to it than that. The covid policies around the world seem to have been a mangled mess of contradictory and arbitrary, sometimes draconian, restrictions and leniencies catering more to the ideology or political benefit of the policymakers than the science of the virus. These impressions apply  both regarding those who created or enforced restrictions and those who removed our opposed such restrictions. The biggest casualty has been the loss of trust in the medical establishment and I fear that will not be regained anytime soon. Using the same playbook to promote vaccines only feeds into the distrust.

[4yourinfo]

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/12/willfully-unvaccinated-should-pay-100-of-covid-hospital-bills-lawmaker-says/

Interesting alternative

Covid is not going away it's likely an endemic as the CDC director said the other day. And even according to her own words the problem also lies with variants other countries etc. This narrative that the media continues to push that the unvaccinated are dragging this endemic along is just patently false. Why are we so worried about the unvaccinated going to hospitals? The goal of these legislations is to falsely blame the endemic on the unvaccinated. Is Covid spreading because of the unvaccinated yes? because of the vacinated? yes because of the variants from other countries? Yes - so what percentage is this endemic because of the unvaccinated? It's time for the politicians, media, medical establishment to figure something else out - this isn't the answer.

[CountValentine]

This is like the gun argument. One side wants to try anything. Other side will say nothing will work. Neither side can see the middle ground.

[ExGingi]

This is like the gun argument. One side wants to try anything. Other side will say nothing will work. Neither side can see the middle ground.

Which side am I (and many others) on?

[CountValentine]

Which side am I (and many others) on?

Hopefully the ones that can see the middle.

[AsherO]

Which side am I (and many others) on?

I don’t necessarily see things as black-and-white like CV, but if there were two poles on approaches to COVID then you’re clearly not on the try anything side.

[Euclid]

If they didn't already get the vaccine, this isn't going to be the final straw. It's just another excuse.

At least the example you provided correctly demonstrates their maturely level.

Helluva first post

[Yehuda57]

I think there is much more to it than that. The covid policies around the world seem to have been a mangled mess of contradictory and arbitrary, sometimes draconian, restrictions and leniencies catering more to the ideology or political benefit of the policymakers than the science of the virus. These impressions apply  both regarding those who created or enforced restrictions and those who removed our opposed such restrictions. The biggest casualty has been the loss of trust in the medical establishment and I fear that will not be regained anytime soon. Using the same playbook to promote vaccines only feeds into the distrust.

Right, I've said as much on a bunch of threads.

This is like the gun argument. One side wants to try anything. Other side will say nothing will work. Neither side can see the middle ground.

I don't get this. I'm vaccinated, quite vocally pro vaccination, as are @aygart and numerous others supposedly taking "the other side". I've helped people who were confused thanks to misinformation take the plunge and get the shot in real life. What "side" am I taking exactly?