Author Topic: Vaccine Mandates  (Read 83496 times)

Online Euclid

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Re: Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #600 on: December 07, 2021, 06:54:01 PM »
Your mind is running wild. How about your medical is not covered if you are not wearing your seatbelt?
Let's have examples that make a little sense at least. 
We're living in the middle of an insanely expensive pandemic emergency - let's not start comparing and worrying about other insurance concerns that would need to go through massive litigation before anything changes. Let's stay focused on the implementation of this approach...IMO.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #601 on: December 07, 2021, 06:58:55 PM »
We're living in the middle of an insanely expensive pandemic emergency - let's not start comparing and worrying about other insurance concerns that would need to go through massive litigation before anything changes. Let's stay focused on the implementation of this approach...IMO.
I would love to focus on this, but you are going to get every insane idea thrown at you to distract.
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #602 on: December 07, 2021, 07:42:20 PM »
Let's say they would build that into this: you need to get your titers checked every 6 months, would you agree with the approach?

(That would be more akin to the dental scenario you're concerned about.)

No. We don't do it for dental checkups either, and there are no adverse reactions or unknown risk factors to a dental checkup. And that's one example out of who knows how many.

That was also one of the things I mentioned. What about age? Does a 5 year old need to be vaccinated or lose coverage? Maybe if a teen boy chooses to get vaccinated they don't get covered for myocarditis?

I know of an infant in hospital now with flu. If his parents she siblings didn't get the flu shot should he be denied coverage?

Maybe, and this is crazy talk, instead of looking for ways to force people to get the vaccine, they can use that energy to figure out why people even need to be forced in the midst of a global pandemic in the first place.

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Re: Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #603 on: December 07, 2021, 08:04:15 PM »


Maybe, and this is crazy talk, instead of looking for ways to force people to get the vaccine, they can use that energy to figure out why people even need to be forced in the midst of a global pandemic in the first place.
THIS

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Online Euclid

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Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #604 on: December 07, 2021, 09:12:32 PM »

Maybe, and this is crazy talk, instead of looking for ways to force people to get the vaccine, they can use that energy to figure out why people even need to be forced in the midst of a global pandemic in the first place.

Agree wholeheartedly - but to fix the root cause is going to take a lot longer than using a stick. Time which we don't have.
They're also not mutually exclusive goals.

Online Euclid

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Re: Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #605 on: December 07, 2021, 09:39:15 PM »
Maybe better idea would be to raise the premiums for unvaccinated? Similar to tobacco users.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #606 on: December 07, 2021, 09:59:21 PM »

They're also not mutually exclusive goals.

I'm afraid they are. I can send you 20 names of people who are not getting vaccinated precisely because of "the stick" approach.

Like any teacher or parent has found out, even when it appears the stick is achieving short term successes, it is being counter productive in the short term as well as producing disastrous long term effects.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #607 on: December 07, 2021, 10:07:13 PM »
I'm afraid they are. I can send you 20 names of people who are not getting vaccinated precisely because of "the stick" approach.
So if there was no mandate they would get vaccinated?
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #608 on: December 07, 2021, 10:30:21 PM »
So if there was no mandate they would get vaccinated?
If they were encouraged to by doctors/people they respect. Those encouragements are worthless now, as they are just coming from the side that is (in their eyes) trying to take away just about every freedom they have, or the side "with the stick", as Euclid put it.

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Re: Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #609 on: December 07, 2021, 10:50:36 PM »
If they were encouraged to by doctors/people they respect. Those encouragements are worthless now, as they are just coming from the side that is (in their eyes) trying to take away just about every freedom they have, or the side "with the stick", as Euclid put it.
There is a word for that way of thinking and I will leave it at that.
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Online Euclid

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Re: Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #610 on: December 07, 2021, 11:00:00 PM »
I'm afraid they are. I can send you 20 names of people who are not getting vaccinated precisely because of "the stick" approach.

Like any teacher or parent has found out, even when it appears the stick is achieving short term successes, it is being counter productive in the short term as well as producing disastrous long term effects.
This sucks.

Offline Eli911

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Re: Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #611 on: December 07, 2021, 11:06:32 PM »
I'm afraid they are. I can send you 20 names of people who are not getting vaccinated precisely because of "the stick" approach.

Like any teacher or parent has found out, even when it appears the stick is achieving short term successes, it is being counter productive in the short term as well as producing disastrous long term effects.
If they didn't already get the vaccine, this isn't going to be the final straw. It's just another excuse.

At least the example you provided correctly demonstrates their maturely level.

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Re: Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #612 on: December 07, 2021, 11:08:49 PM »
If they were encouraged to by doctors/people they respect. Those encouragements are worthless now, as they are just coming from the side that is (in their eyes) trying to take away just about every freedom they have, or the side "with the stick", as Euclid put it.
I think there is much more to it than that. The covid policies around the world seem to have been a mangled mess of contradictory and arbitrary, sometimes draconian, restrictions and leniencies catering more to the ideology or political benefit of the policymakers than the science of the virus. These impressions apply  both regarding those who created or enforced restrictions and those who removed our opposed such restrictions. The biggest casualty has been the loss of trust in the medical establishment and I fear that will not be regained anytime soon. Using the same playbook to promote vaccines only feeds into the distrust.
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Offline 4yourinfo

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Re: Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #613 on: December 07, 2021, 11:12:10 PM »
https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/12/willfully-unvaccinated-should-pay-100-of-covid-hospital-bills-lawmaker-says/

Interesting alternative
Covid is not going away it's likely an endemic as the CDC director said the other day. And even according to her own words the problem also lies with variants other countries etc. This narrative that the media continues to push that the unvaccinated are dragging this endemic along is just patently false. Why are we so worried about the unvaccinated going to hospitals? The goal of these legislations is to falsely blame the endemic on the unvaccinated. Is Covid spreading because of the unvaccinated yes? because of the vacinated? yes because of the variants from other countries? Yes - so what percentage is this endemic because of the unvaccinated? It's time for the politicians, media, medical establishment to figure something else out - this isn't the answer.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #614 on: December 07, 2021, 11:26:01 PM »
This is like the gun argument. One side wants to try anything. Other side will say nothing will work. Neither side can see the middle ground.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #615 on: December 07, 2021, 11:50:58 PM »
This is like the gun argument. One side wants to try anything. Other side will say nothing will work. Neither side can see the middle ground.

Which side am I (and many others) on?
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #616 on: December 07, 2021, 11:55:01 PM »
Which side am I (and many others) on?
Hopefully the ones that can see the middle.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #617 on: December 07, 2021, 11:56:05 PM »
Which side am I (and many others) on?

I don’t necessarily see things as black-and-white like CV, but if there were two poles on approaches to COVID then you’re clearly not on the try anything side.
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Online Euclid

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Re: Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #618 on: December 08, 2021, 12:08:33 AM »
If they didn't already get the vaccine, this isn't going to be the final straw. It's just another excuse.

At least the example you provided correctly demonstrates their maturely level.
Helluva first post ;)

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Mandates
« Reply #619 on: December 08, 2021, 12:48:40 AM »
I think there is much more to it than that. The covid policies around the world seem to have been a mangled mess of contradictory and arbitrary, sometimes draconian, restrictions and leniencies catering more to the ideology or political benefit of the policymakers than the science of the virus. These impressions apply  both regarding those who created or enforced restrictions and those who removed our opposed such restrictions. The biggest casualty has been the loss of trust in the medical establishment and I fear that will not be regained anytime soon. Using the same playbook to promote vaccines only feeds into the distrust.

Right, I've said as much on a bunch of threads.

This is like the gun argument. One side wants to try anything. Other side will say nothing will work. Neither side can see the middle ground.

I don't get this. I'm vaccinated, quite vocally pro vaccination, as are @aygart and numerous others supposedly taking "the other side". I've helped people who were confused thanks to misinformation take the plunge and get the shot in real life. What "side" am I taking exactly?