Vaccine Mandates

[yuneeq]

This is like the gun argument. One side wants to try anything. Other side will say nothing will work. Neither side can see the middle ground.

This couldn’t be more incorrect. I took the vaccine, and encourage many others to take it as well. Yet most that refuse it is because the vaccine has become so politicized and forced down their throats even in unscientifically proven situations that they can’t fathom that it’s trustworthy.

[aygart]

Right, I've said as much on a bunch of threads.

I don't get this. I'm vaccinated, quite vocally pro vaccination, as are @aygart and numerous others supposedly taking "the other side". I've helped people who were confused thanks to misinformation take the plunge and get the shot in real life. What "side" am I taking exactly?

I have written and also told people that I am VERY pro vaccine and I am torn about mandates. I don't consider them to be an infringement on rights, but I am concerned about the politicization of COVID and these mandates do not help matters.

[drosenberg88429]

I think that in the frum community, there are plenty (possibly the most standard position) of people that are pro vaccines, vaccinated, and anti mandates. In the general world, I don't see that to be true as much (although my exposure is primarily through the media, which is not a reliable source of info, and forums/comment sections, which tend to attract the most vocal and extremist elements). It seems like in the general population, being vaccinated usually seems to come along with being pro mandates. Is the frum community more nervous about slippery slopes and eroding personal freedoms than the rest of America, or am I just privy to a non indicative sample size? Is the concept of not agreeing with what you say but supporting your right to say it really such an anomaly today? That would be quite unfortunate.

[CountValentine]

You all missed the point. Just like the gun debate when I say two sides does not mean you are in one or the other. You are hopefully one of the sensible that understand the solution is between the two. 

[CountValentine]

I think that in the frum community, there are plenty (possibly the most standard position) of people that are pro vaccines, vaccinated, and anti mandates. In the general world, I don't see that to be true as much (although my exposure is primarily through the media, which is not a reliable source of info, and forums/comment sections, which tend to attract the most vocal and extremist elements). It seems like in the general population, being vaccinated usually seems to come along with being pro mandates. Is the frum community more nervous about slippery slopes and eroding personal freedoms than the rest of America, or am I just privy to a non indicative sample size? Is the concept of not agreeing with what you say but supporting your right to say it really such an anomaly today? That would be quite unfortunate.

In the general population being against the current vaccine is mostly aligned with a distinct part of one political party.
Mandate is a smokescreen and saying they would get vaccinated if there was no mandate is pure BS!!!

[Dawie]

[yuneeq]

You all missed the point. Just like the gun debate when I say two sides does not mean you are in one or the other. You are hopefully one of the sensible that understand the solution is between the two.

Understood your point better with this clarification.

In the general population being against the current vaccine is mostly aligned with a distinct part of one political party.
Mandate is a smokescreen and saying they would get vaccinated if there was no mandate is pure BS!!!

You are correct about those who are for and against the vaccine. But then there’s those that just don’t care much either way and they are convince-able with the right message. It’s like the 40% that don’t vote in presidential elections, yeh they get it’s important but just don’t care enough. You need the right messaging to improve turnout.

[zh cohen]

It seems like in the general population, being vaccinated usually seems to come along with being pro mandates.

I don't think this is true at all. There are countless conservatives that are proudly vaccinated, but are against mandates.

[avromie7]

I think that in the frum community, there are plenty (possibly the most standard position) of people that are pro vaccines, vaccinated, and anti mandates. In the general world, I don't see that to be true as much (although my exposure is primarily through the media, which is not a reliable source of info, and forums/comment sections, which tend to attract the most vocal and extremist elements). It seems like in the general population, being vaccinated usually seems to come along with being pro mandates. Is the frum community more nervous about slippery slopes and eroding personal freedoms than the rest of America, or am I just privy to a non indicative sample size? Is the concept of not agreeing with what you say but supporting your right to say it really such an anomaly today? That would be quite unfortunate.

You get this impression because the media gives you this impression. The overwhelming majority of Republican lawmakers are vaccinated (the exceptions are on the fringes like MTG), but they're all anti mandate. All Democratic lawmakers are vaccinated and the overwhelming majority are pro mandate.

The frum community skews heavily R, so they fit right in with about 50% of the country on that side.

[Euclid]

For those anti-mandate (assuming this is because of too much government interference, eroding of freedoms), shouldn't giving this decision to the private insurance companies (allowing them to decide coverage and/or raise premium rates for unvaccinated) be a good approach?

(Not addressing the mistrust issue here.)

[CountValentine]

I don't think this is true at all. There are countless conservatives that are proudly vaccinated, but are against mandates.

What does "proudly vaccinated" mean?
There are also R's that are vaccinated and are pro-mandate. Then you have the R hypocrites that are vaccinated and against the mandate for political reasons.

[CountValentine]

You get this impression because the media gives you this impression.

What source you using for your impression?

[Ver hut gazugt]

If I may interject.

I think the vaccination number in the usa are pretty good. You won’t hear it in the news but a quick search shows that about 72% of American got at least one shot compared to 69% in Israel ( which is considered a highly vaccinated country). Fully vaccinated is similar as well, usa 59% Israel 62%.

 

[CountValentine]

If I may interject.

I think the vaccination number in the usa are pretty good. You won’t hear it in the news but a quick search shows that about 72% of American got at least one shot compared to 69% in Israel ( which is considered a highly vaccinated country). Fully vaccinated is similar as well, usa 59% Israel 62%.

Why are we not at say 90%?
How does UA get 99% with a union?

[yelped]

Why are we not at say 90%?
How does UA get 99% with a union?

I would venture to guess a big bulk is kids. What percentage of adults are vaccinated?

[avromie7]

What source you using for your impression?

The impression I get from the MSM. Fortunately I see some from the other side too, to see that it's false.

For those anti-mandate (assuming this is because of too much government interference, eroding of freedoms), shouldn't giving this decision to the private insurance companies (allowing them to decide coverage and/or raise premium rates for unvaccinated) be a good approach?

(Not addressing the mistrust issue here.)

I'm all for deregulating the health insurance market. I just don't want it to be limited to only the COVID vaccine, because it's just as political as any other "solution".

[yungermanchik]

 I'm all for deregulating the health insurance market. I just don't want it to be limited to only the COVID vaccine, because it's just as political as any other "solution".

So, do you think before paying for a heart surgery, insurance companies should get to see your restaurant and grocery receipts etc.?

[CountValentine]

So, do you think before paying for a heart surgery, insurance companies should get to see your restaurant and grocery receipts etc.?

They should be able to see if you are taking your heart medication, no?

[yungermanchik]

They should be able to see if you are taking your heart medication, no?

I'm talking about someone without a "history". Just bad eating habits.

[avromie7]

So, do you think before paying for a heart surgery, insurance companies should get to see your restaurant and grocery receipts etc.?

I don't think so, but it's the equivalent of what some are suggesting. I don't have an issue with them giving a discount for being vaccinated, as long as they can do the same for anything else that leaves you less likely to get sick etc. just like we have for car insurance.