Poll

1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?

Get 1 dose and wait and see what updated guidance says
11 (50%)
Get 2 doses and be done with it
11 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Author Topic: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?  (Read 13366 times)

Offline Toasted

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Re: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #200 on: August 25, 2021, 08:01:38 PM »
Hey @Toasted !  I'm lost.  Could you stop by and explain the statistics in the article above.  See the last part of
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=123776.msg2491027#msg2491027

and the original article is linked here:
@biobook  I'm not sure which piece you're struggling with.

Bottom line the chances of reinfection are 37/14k vs. 20/14k if you also get the jab. To spin it the other way, once you had covid, there's a 99.73% chance you won't get it again. If you also get the jab it improves to 99.86. Sounds a whole less glamorous than 53% reduction of risk.

Do you think vaccines should be MANDATED for this cohort? Is the current outbreak their fault?

Offline biobook

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Re: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #201 on: August 25, 2021, 08:23:36 PM »
@biobook  I'm not sure which piece you're struggling with.

Thanks for showing up!  Here's what I didn't understand - It's in the article itself, not the abstract.  In the Results for Model 3, they say that the people who recovered from covid and were vaccinated had a significantly decreased risk, but then in the Discussion, say the decrease was not significant.  Are they referring to the same thing in both sentences?  What am I missing?

Results:
Examining previously infected individuals to those who were
both previously infected and received a single dose of the vaccine, we found that the
latter group had a significant 0.53-fold (95% CI, 0.3 to 0.92) (Table 4a) decreased risk
for reinfection, as 20 had a positive RT-PCR test, compared to 37 in the previously
infected and unvaccinated group.

Discussion:
Individuals who were previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 seem to gain additional
protection from a subsequent single-dose vaccine regimen. Though this finding
corresponds to previous reports24,25, we could not demonstrate significance in our
cohort.

Offline Ver hut gazugt

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Re: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #202 on: August 25, 2021, 08:43:00 PM »
Thanks for showing up!  Here's what I didn't understand - It's in the article itself, not the abstract.  In the Results for Model 3, they say that the people who recovered from covid and were vaccinated had a significantly decreased risk, but then in the Discussion, say the decrease was not significant.  Are they referring to the same thing in both sentences?  What am I missing?

Results:
Examining previously infected individuals to those who were
both previously infected and received a single dose of the vaccine, we found that the
latter group had a significant 0.53-fold (95% CI, 0.3 to 0.92) (Table 4a) decreased risk
for reinfection, as 20 had a positive RT-PCR test, compared to 37 in the previously
infected and unvaccinated group.

Discussion:
Individuals who were previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 seem to gain additional
protection from a subsequent single-dose vaccine regimen. Though this finding
corresponds to previous reports24,25, we could not demonstrate significance in our
cohort.

It could be they are using the word in two ways.
1 - statistically significant ( p value)
2 - practically speaking, not very significant.


Offline biobook

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Re: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #203 on: August 25, 2021, 08:57:11 PM »
It could be they are using the word in two ways.
1 - statistically significant ( p value)
2 - practically speaking, not very significant.
Could be, but I doubt it.  Scientists have it drummed into them that the word significant should be used only for statistical significance, and if they meant it the other way, I'd have expected them to say not consequential, or not very important, or not medically relevant, or not physiologically meaningful, or anything other than "significant".k
@Toasted  see post above this

Offline CountValentine

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Re: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #204 on: August 25, 2021, 09:09:15 PM »
results - 37/14 vs 20/14k significant drop
discussion - .27% vs .14% not significant

Do I have it right?
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline Toasted

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Re: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #205 on: August 25, 2021, 09:12:08 PM »
Could be, but I doubt it.  Scientists have it drummed into them that the word significant should be used only for statistical significance, and if they meant it the other way, I'd have expected them to say not consequential, or not very important, or not medically relevant, or not physiologically meaningful, or anything other than "significant".k
@Toasted  see post above this
Dunno, perhaps since the upper confidence interval is .92? Maybe we need some yoga experts to understand how they twist their words. @CountValentine knows them all.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #206 on: August 25, 2021, 09:14:15 PM »
Dunno, perhaps since the upper confidence interval is .92? Maybe we need some yoga experts to understand how they twist their words. @CountValentine knows them all.
Does it matter what words they use? The numbers are there.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline biobook

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Re: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #207 on: August 25, 2021, 09:17:59 PM »
results - 37/14 vs 20/14k significant drop
discussion - .27% vs .14% not significant

Do I have it right?
Where do you get those percentages?  You're converting the fraction to a %?  Why would that make a difference?

Offline CountValentine

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Re: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #208 on: August 25, 2021, 09:24:58 PM »
Where do you get those percentages?  You're converting the fraction to a %?  Why would that make a difference?
Sorry % is chance of getting covid again. I used @Toasted numbers of not getting covid again 99.73% vs 99.86% and flipped them to chance of getting covid again.

You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline AsherO

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Re: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #209 on: August 25, 2021, 09:41:59 PM »
@biobook  I'm not sure which piece you're struggling with.

Bottom line the chances of reinfection are 37/14k vs. 20/14k if you also get the jab. To spin it the other way, once you had covid, there's a 99.73% chance you won't get it again. If you also get the jab it improves to 99.86. Sounds a whole less glamorous than 53% reduction of risk.

Do you think vaccines should be MANDATED for this cohort? Is the current outbreak their fault?

But people in this cohort could still get reinfected, the 53% reduction could persist for further cases of reinfection and thus be more significant, same for a 14k cohort in a population with higher prevalence of COVID than the cohort.

Offline biobook

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Re: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #210 on: August 25, 2021, 09:44:20 PM »
I don't get it, but now I see Eric Topol's twitter says "There are issues interpreting this study" so maybe it's not just me.  I'm going to wait and see what the journalists do with this.

Online avromie7

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Re: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #211 on: August 25, 2021, 10:18:41 PM »
@biobook  how long do you think it will be before we have data available for how long immunity (natural and/or vaccine) lasts based on age? IINM immunity lasts longer in younger people.

Did the study from Israel give a breakdown based on age?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #212 on: August 25, 2021, 10:19:09 PM »
This article is a classic example on how we can play with numbers.

One will take the results part and say if you don't take the shot your 50% more likely to get reinfected vs those that took the shot. Take the damn shot!!!

Next person takes the discussion part and says if do or don't take the shot the chance of reinfection is less than .0028
The damn shot doesn't matter.

@Lurker which one do you want? I have an hour to kill.  :)
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline Lurker

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Re: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #213 on: August 25, 2021, 10:25:43 PM »
@Lurker which one do you want? I have an hour to kill.  :)

Yes.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline biobook

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Re: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #214 on: August 25, 2021, 10:53:28 PM »
@biobook  how long do you think it will be before we have data available for how long immunity (natural and/or vaccine) lasts based on age? IINM immunity lasts longer in younger people.

Did the study from Israel give a breakdown based on age?
They say that there were more infections in the >60 group, but didn't break it down more than that.

Offline Euclid

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Re: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #215 on: August 25, 2021, 11:22:32 PM »
I don't get it, but now I see Eric Topol's twitter says "There are issues interpreting this study" so maybe it's not just me.  I'm going to wait and see what the journalists do with this.
Forget the journalists - let's see what happens after the peer review; it's currently only a preprint (and it quotes a couple other preprints too).

Offline ExGingi

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Re: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #216 on: October 03, 2021, 12:23:58 AM »
https://archive.is/RPzua

Haaretz article in Hebrew discussing antibody tests, last paragraph seems to indicate that medical experts say no reason for shot after six months of recovery. More likely to be protected for 10-12 months after recovery.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Euclid

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1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #217 on: October 03, 2021, 12:27:41 AM »
https://archive.is/RPzua

Haaretz article in Hebrew discussing antibody tests, last paragraph seems to indicate that medical experts say no reason for shot after six months of recovery. More likely to be protected for 10-12 months after recovery.

Interesting

Though most people in frum community in NY/NJ are past that range

Offline ExGingi

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Re: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #218 on: October 03, 2021, 12:34:05 AM »
Interesting

Though most people in frum community in NY/NJ are past that range

An antibody test can reveal something. Politicians are opposed to it. Just mandate vaccines. The more me merrier.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: 1 Or 2 Vaccine Doses For People Who Had COVID?
« Reply #219 on: October 03, 2021, 12:36:58 AM »
Interesting

Though most people in frum community in NY/NJ are past that range

I have seen 3x vaccinated people from Israel test positive here. Much more common than recoverees testing positive (or recoverees with a single dose of vaccine).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan