Get Refusal

[Mootkim]

This topic has overtaken social media for the past few weeks but I dont see any discussion on the forums. I'm curious to hear everyone's opinions on what is going on and if you think it will ultimately eliminate divorces from ever coming to these situations in the future.

[jj1000]

if you think it will ultimately eliminate divorces from ever coming to these situations in the future.

One can hope and dream.

[Lurker]

if you think it will ultimately eliminate divorces from ever coming to these situations in the future.

You mean if people will stay in bad marriages rather than deal with a potential agunah situation?

[Mordyk]

In this generation of "guilty until proven innocent" everyone blames the husband.  Many many men are guilty. (So anyone that wants to argue make sure you read this),  but so many women don't let the fathers see the children, take to shul, be involved in chinuch etc. I really hope before people come to a conclusion regarding a specific case that try to hear the husband's side

[yesitsme]

the torah set the standards, and we need to deal with it

[TimT]

In this generation of "guilty until proven innocent" everyone blames the husband.  Many many men are guilty. (So anyone that wants to argue make sure you read this),  but so many women don't let the fathers see the children, take to shul, be involved in chinuch etc. I really hope before people come to a conclusion regarding a specific case that try to hear the husband's side

http://www.5tjt.com/halachic-musings-may-alienated-fathers-withhold-a-get/

[JACKBLUE]

IMHO the title needs to be updated either to “גט refusal” or to “GET” refusal. Took me few seconds to chap what you’re talking about!

[aygart]

This has been discussed here so long ago

[zh cohen]

In this generation of "guilty until proven innocent" everyone blames the husband.  Many many men are guilty. (So anyone that wants to argue make sure you read this),  but so many women don't let the fathers see the children, take to shul, be involved in chinuch etc. I really hope before people come to a conclusion regarding a specific case that try to hear the husband's side

Somewhat relevant to your point - https://mishpacha.com/were-only-addressing-half-the-problem/

[Yehudaa]

This has been discussed here so long ago

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=33919.300

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=57263.1600

[yuneeq]

The protests in the Syrian community are working extremely well, today a sick man that has refused for 17 years, including getting remarried, and played every trick in the book, has finally given a get. I never believed this would happen but it’s an open miracle, Zman cherusenu.

At the same time I don’t think these protests would work as well in other communities.

Regarding the men, the rabbonim have to be involved and check out each case before it goes viral on social media. Some men claim custody is being taken away and this can be correct, others are liars, having never visited their kids in years or having visitation removed by the courts request, not the wife’s.

[Mordyk]

The protests in the Syrian community are working extremely well, today a sick man that has refused for 17 years, including getting remarried, and played every trick in the book, has finally given a get. I never believed this would happen but it’s an open miracle, Zman cherusenu.

At the same time I don’t think these protests would work as well in other communities.

Regarding the men, the rabbonim have to be involved and check out each case before it goes viral on social media. Some men claim custody is being taken away and this can be correct, others are liars, having never visited their kids in years or having visitation removed by the courts request, not the wife’s.

Exactly.   That's why I said try to find out about each individual case. Don't jump to conclusions simply because it's trending in Instagram

[lcm]

Not sure if this was mentioned upthread, but from what I've heard, this practice comes from the gemara. (Don't knock me out now, just sharing what I've heard)

[yesitsme]

כופין עד שיאמר רוצה אני
And there's a cherem that one should not divorce against her will

[JACKBLUE]

כופין עד שיאמר רוצה אני

!!תורה לשמה Rashi brings this, this weeks Parsha.

[lcm]

Not sure if this was mentioned upthread, but from what I've heard, this practice comes from the gemara. (Don't knock me out now, just sharing what I've heard)

I mean this specific form of forcing him

[zh cohen]

The protests in the Syrian community are working extremely well, today a sick man that has refused for 17 years, including getting remarried, and played every trick in the book, has finally given a get. I never believed this would happen but it’s an open miracle, Zman cherusenu.

At the same time I don’t think these protests would work as well in other communities.

Was it the protests or the arrest on separate charges?

[yerushabubby]

In this generation of "guilty until proven innocent" everyone blames the husband.  Many many men are guilty. (So anyone that wants to argue make sure you read this),  but so many women don't let the fathers see the children, take to shul, be involved in chinuch etc. I really hope before people come to a conclusion regarding a specific case that try to hear the husband's side

I do not believe that withholding a get should ever be used as a negotiating tool.  It is one thing to say "Let's work out custody and financial arrangements first" as long as they are honestly being worked out in the most expedient way possible, but quite another to demand concessions in exchange for a get.

On the other hand, one must clarify the situation before vilifying the husband!  I remember years ago seeing signs calling for a cherem to pressure a man to give his wife a get.  When I mentioned it to a friend, she was horrified - she knew the family personally and told me the true situation.  The wife was in a mental ward suffering from severe  post partum depression.  Her family was convinced (against the doctors' recommendations)  that she would be best served by being divorced and sent back to her parents, with her husband keeping sole custody of their children.  He wanted his wife to recover first, and then see what SHE wanted - preferably to keep their family intact!

[Yehuda57]

Get refusal is abuse. If you have a custody battle or whatever, hash it out in Beis Din or the courtroom. Using a get as leverage is an incredible act of cruelty. If there is ever an excuse it would be the one in a thousand exception.

Any time you hear a get apologist excuse a guy because of some custody battle or the like, you find out that either the guy didn't even try visit his kids when he was asked to by the wife in the early stages of separation, or he was being kept away from the kids because he abused them.

Due process and innocence until guilt is proven are important and necessary ideals. However when you witness someone getting abused, if your gut reaction is "let's hear out the abuser" and not "gevalt! Let's protect the abused" there is clearly something amiss. Too often we hear people trying to "both sides" a get refuser when the reaction should be to protect the women.

[Ver hut gazugt]

Not sure if this was mentioned upthread, but from what I've heard, this practice comes from the gemara. (Don't knock me out now, just sharing what I've heard)

In Chabad not sure about others this type of get is Not used. In general it is a very problematic get.