Author Topic: Get Refusal  (Read 72503 times)

Offline avromie7

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #140 on: March 15, 2021, 02:38:09 PM »
so let him share a letter of a beis din supporting his side & saying she is not listening.... crickets....
First of all, that happens many times, but the "activists" don't care. Secondly, why is he required to air his dirty laundry because she decided to air hers?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #141 on: March 15, 2021, 02:39:02 PM »
havent seen one "get refuser" show a letter of a (orthodox) beis din saying he showed up to make a case & the siruv the other beis din gave out is unfair etc....

Because these men who refuse gittin to these women are animals & "ALMOST" every time could care less about halacha..
First of all, that happens many times, but the "activists" don't care. Secondly, why is he required to air his dirty laundry because she decided to air hers?
The fact that you've never seen it proves my point.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #142 on: March 15, 2021, 02:39:52 PM »
Others would say Moshiach can't come until there is unity  ;D

Chicken-egg problem, and why Galus and sinas chinam have been bi-millennial issues.
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Offline Chapshnell

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #143 on: March 15, 2021, 02:41:10 PM »
First of that happens many times, but the "activists" don't care. Secondly, why is he required to air his dirty laundry because she decided to air hers?

start showing us... start posting them...
I havent seen any (And I dont have instagram etc to follow these activists)...

There is no such thing, if a beis din calls upon you you answer, there is no excuse to ignore. If he feels its a rigged beis din etc.. go to a dif beis din & sort your issues out.
Everything must happen within a beis din, not on your own.

anyone that refuses a get to their wife and in the process of doing that ignored a beis din is automatically wrong in my eyes. SORRY BUT NOT SORRY

Offline avromie7

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #144 on: March 15, 2021, 02:43:10 PM »
start showing us... start posting them...
I havent seen any (And I dont have instagram etc to follow these activists)...

There is no such thing, if a beis din calls upon you you answer, there is no excuse to ignore. If he feels its a rigged beis din etc.. go to a dif beis din & sort your issues out.
Everything must happen within a beis din, not on your own.

anyone that refuses a get to their wife and in the process of doing that ignored a beis din is automatically wrong in my eyes. SORRY BUT NOT SORRY
Are you intentionally ignoring the other 3 times I answered this?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline S209

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #145 on: March 15, 2021, 02:54:04 PM »
A woman can refuse a get, but firstly, it's the minority
https://mishpacha.com/were-only-addressing-half-the-problem/

Quote
Take, for example, the painful reality of get refusal, which is a vicious form of emotional abuse against a spouse. According to 2017 data from the Israeli Rabbinate, of the 809 cases of get refusal, 382 of the refusers were men compared to 427 women refusers. Notably, despite that disparity, 69 male get refusers were incarcerated for their refusal, compared to zero women.

and secondly, it's not as much of a threat to a man as it is to a woman.
Heter Meah is extremely rare and is only given when it is exceedingly clear to one hundred separate Rabbanim that he is in the right. A far higher bar than a social media campaign with “fact checkers”.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #146 on: March 15, 2021, 03:05:15 PM »
Heter Meah is extremely rare and is only given when it is exceedingly clear to one hundred separate Rabbanim that he is in the right. A far higher bar than a social media campaign with “fact checkers”.

From my understanding Israel has a far higher percentage of women refusers than US does due to the way Israel handles things
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Offline S209

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #147 on: March 15, 2021, 03:18:29 PM »
From my understanding Israel has a far higher percentage of women refusers than US does due to the way Israel handles things
Those are the only actual numbers I’ve seen. Based on that, I think the burden of proof shifts to the one alleging that women get refusers are a “minority”.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline Dan

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #148 on: March 15, 2021, 03:21:05 PM »
Unfortunately I am very familiar with this parsha
Trip report? ;)
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #149 on: March 15, 2021, 03:24:01 PM »
Trip report? ;)

You mean they trip you before they whack you? I still prefer the whack report...
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Offline whacked1

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #150 on: March 15, 2021, 03:24:54 PM »
Trip report? ;)
Ha ha. If anyone is unfortunately going through (hopefully no one will), they can pm with questions.

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #151 on: March 15, 2021, 03:26:19 PM »
You mean they trip you before they whack you? I still prefer the whack report...
Maybe the Cattle Column?
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Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #152 on: March 15, 2021, 03:48:21 PM »
We live in a world where we need to listen to the law. If someone has hardship with child support etc they should bring it to the judge but the bottom line is dina demalchusa dina and if thats what the law is then we must follow it. A get was never intended to put you above the law or to ignore the law or to bypass the law.

You know what halacha says about someone who goes to ערכאות when they don't follow דין תורה, and someone who reports people to authorities for something which is not against the תורה (AKA a moser).

If you believe that American law takes precedence over Halacha, I'm not sure why you're on a thread discussing gittin. There's nothing in American law about Mamzeirim. Just sprinkle some holy water on them, and they'll be good to go.

If a woman can utilize an unjust privilege provided by American law to make it impossible for a man to move on in life, and you don't blink about that, then why are you so scandalized when the man uses an "unjust privilege" provided by halacha to make it impossible for a woman to move on in life? If you believe in equal rights, than you should be just as bothered by women making men agunos as you are by men making women such.


The Nazis were law abiding soldiers displaying strict obedience to authority. Just ask Mr. Milgram.

Offline aygart

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #153 on: March 15, 2021, 03:48:51 PM »
Heter Meah is extremely rare and is only given when it is exceedingly clear to one hundred separate Rabbanim that he is in the right. A far higher bar than a social media campaign with “fact checkers”.

I would imagine though that once it would reach incarceration the heter meah is much more likely.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Jellybelly

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #154 on: March 15, 2021, 03:49:54 PM »
You mean they trip you before they whack you? I still prefer the whack report...
Then we’ll Have whacked1 and whacked2
« Last Edit: March 15, 2021, 03:53:11 PM by Jellybelly »

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #155 on: March 15, 2021, 04:00:07 PM »
Some may call it feminism, some may decry what has seeped into our world and they may be right, but facts are facts and we are where we are.

I am stringent in halacha and hold dearly onto our mesorah, but so many other aspects of our lives have adapted to the times, there is no reason this should not be as well.

Please honestly take a minute and  try to see it from a woman's perspective.


While in the past I may have been 'sold' to my husband from my father for a couple of cows, those days are long over.

I am an independent single woman who has been earning a salary and putting away money for the past 10 years. Although I expect to trust the man I marry, it is still troublesome to me that the morning after my wedding, this man now halachically owns every dollar I ever owned. I am not an 18 year old girl that has nothing to her name and her father is passing her over to her husband.
Times have changed.

It's troublesome that the man has such a clear advantage when it comes to a divorce. Of course there are cases when the woman is taking advantage, whether it be the kids or money. Of course there are cases where the woman is crazy, maligning the man etc.
But at the end of the day, that can and does happen on both sides. There should be no clear leverage handed to one side with no reason.

Fight things out civilly in court and Beis Din with both equal players coming to the field.

As a side point, I've been following the social media campaign and am inspired as to what has gone on. Yes, there has been extreme fact checking before posting and rallying. The main players here have spoken extensively to beis din and all various parties involved before posting anything.

I think that's imperative, as we obviously don't want this to turn into a #metoo movement where every man is blamed for any movement, but it can only be a  good thing to engender a little more fear into a man's heart and make him think twice about withholding a get in the future.

A) You're unaware of the halachos, if you think your husband owns ever penny you ever earned when you get married, and even if you think he automatically owns every penny of your earnings that you earn while you are married.

B) What percentage of cases do you know of the husband getting full custody and the wife being obligated to pay child support and alimony? As you said, times have changed, and you're an independent women capable of having a career, so why hasn't this changed in the secular court system? It's troublesome that the woman has such a clear advantage when it comes to a divorce.


Facts have a difficult time reconciling feminist cognitive dissonance.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #156 on: March 15, 2021, 04:07:26 PM »

The Nazis

It took 11 pages, but ladies and gentlemen, we have arrived.

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #157 on: March 15, 2021, 04:07:42 PM »
    100% this should apply to women as well. This is why I like the concept of a halachik prenup. To my understanding (I may be wrong) the couple selects a predetermined BD to use if they should need one.

    In both cases of the SY women that were freed this week, the men had remarried. One very well known get refuser got a heter meah rabbanim and has remarried.
    My point is, I know that divorce is messy and both sides can get super ugly. So we can't pretend that all will be well in civil court if both parties are sane, stable individuals.
    But I don't believe the answer to that is giving the power to one side as a bargaining chip. Find something else to use. The get should never be used as a bargaining chip. Ever.
A good prenuptial should stay include a framework for divorce settlement that covers custody, asset distribution, support, and a pre agreed upon arbitrator. This should also include legally enforceable steep fiscal penalties for circumventing the custody agreements discussed in the prenuptial (this is very pertinent in states where arbitrators cannot judicate custody arrangements).[/list]

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #158 on: March 15, 2021, 04:08:32 PM »
It took 11 pages, but ladies and gentlemen, we have arrived.

Thanks, sweetiepie. Yes, we like bringing strong examples to bring out absurdities in certain statements.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Get Refusal
« Reply #159 on: March 15, 2021, 04:14:09 PM »
Thanks, sweetiepie. Yes, we like bringing strong examples to bring out absurdities in certain statements.

If you need to bring in the Nazis to prove your point you've already conceded
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