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Author Topic: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything  (Read 159680 times)

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2600 on: March 06, 2023, 09:36:12 PM »
k

Again, you are comparing Manhattan to Crown Heights (and presumably a letter to someone who doesn't consider himself a Lubavitcher, to words said to a חסיד of the Rebbe), and taking an excerpt of a letter and ignoring its context. Show us the entire letter (and preferably also the letter to which it is responding).

It seems to me that whoever this letter was written to, probably wrote to the Rebbe that he plans to have an eruv erected so that people can carry their tallis to shul. To which the Rebbe is responding that in his opinion that approach is wrong. The only reason to erect an eiruv (if feasible) is to save those that will carry regardless, from doing so באיסור. And in order to not get people that wouldn't carry without an eiruv, it should be done in utmost secrecy.

My guess is that if the recipient of this letter accepted the Rebbe's position, it is likely that he didn't go ahead with the plan.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2023, 09:57:10 PM by ExGingi »
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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2601 on: March 06, 2023, 09:40:30 PM »




Let me translate the last line for you:

An eiruv should not be erected unless it is done secretly.

(I.e. The starting point is that it should not be erected, unless one finds a way to do it without word getting out sooner or later - as indicated at the beginning of this answer).
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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2602 on: March 07, 2023, 12:12:37 AM »
Ifff your Cain Stull poat in thiz thread on Purik and make sence you looz ure libavitch kard

Which self respecting Lubavitcher says Lechaim tonight? And no Lubavitcher would willingly carry around a membership card to anything other than Costco. The closest you'll get is this

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2603 on: March 07, 2023, 02:41:50 PM »
Put up an unpublished Eruv where no weekly notice comes up that it was checked and itís Kosher, as a bdieved for someone who carried.

Let suggest the following to you, and anyone saying that the Rebbe suggested a secret eiruv in Crown Heights.

An eiruv can only remain secret if nobody wants it.
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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2604 on: March 07, 2023, 03:47:34 PM »
k
Feelings don't care about your facts!
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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2605 on: March 07, 2023, 04:01:30 PM »
I never said that. Let me explain it to you with an example:

15 year old comes to his father (in NY) and says: can I go to EY?

Father responds: You may go, but you can't travel by plane, train, ship, car or bus.

Did the father allow his son to go to EY? Did he say one thing but mean something else?
He is telling his son in a roundabout way he can't go.
Next question?  :)
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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2606 on: March 07, 2023, 04:11:04 PM »
He is telling his son in a roundabout way he can't go.
Next question?  :)

Obviously. Yet some here have a hard time acknowledging that.

I guess that post was my דרך קצרה וארוכה to lead people to the obvious conclusion. I guess it failed. I will post a דרך ארוכה וקצרה later.

https://www.sefaria.org/Eruvin.53b.22-23 (For CV to understand the Hebrew phrases)
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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2607 on: March 07, 2023, 04:19:56 PM »
Obviously. Yet some here have a hard time acknowledging that.
Welcome to my world.  ;)
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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2608 on: March 07, 2023, 04:22:19 PM »
Welcome to my world.  ;)

But even you ignored the second question! Did the father mean something other than what he said?
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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2609 on: March 07, 2023, 04:25:28 PM »
But even you ignored the second question! Did the father mean something other than what he said?
It actually answered both questions, but I will make it clear.
1 - No
2 - Yes
Anything else?  :)
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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2610 on: March 07, 2023, 04:29:22 PM »
It actually answered both questions, but I will make it clear.
1 - No
2 - Yes
Anything else?  :)
Why are you answering Yes to the second question? In what way can what he said be interpreted differently from what he meant?

Anything else from you? Not that I can think of. Unless you have a way to get others to acknowledge that sometimes things are presented and meant that way, regardless of whether we understand the reason for presenting it that way rather than a straightforward simple "no".
« Last Edit: March 07, 2023, 04:32:24 PM by ExGingi »
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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2611 on: March 07, 2023, 04:33:04 PM »
Unless you have a way to get others to acknowledge that sometimes things are presented and meant that way, regardless of whether we understand the reason for presenting it that way rather than a straightforward simple "no".
From my experience it is not going to happen. If answering a question doesn't help their position, then you will not get an answer. Their response is usually a:


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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2612 on: March 07, 2023, 09:56:21 PM »
@Dan and @jj1000 I guess you guys might have taken offense at the farbrengen style language I used, so let's take a step back, and explore together the known facts, step by step.

Are you aware of any instance where a suggestion for erecting an eruv came from the Rebbe (באתערותא דלעילא)? If yes, kindly share details.

In cases where people asked the Rebbe about erecting an eruv, how many (or which) of those were brought forth with the intention to save people that would anyways carry from doing so באיסור?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2023, 09:59:55 PM by ExGingi »
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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2613 on: March 08, 2023, 01:55:03 PM »
I'm pretty sure that at least one of the letters responding suggesting that an eruv - if erected - should be kept secret, also includes the disclaimer that this in no way takes a position on the halachic issues of whether one is halachicaly feasible there in the first place

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2614 on: March 08, 2023, 02:05:13 PM »
I'm pretty sure that at least one of the letters responding suggesting that an eruv - if erected - should be kept secret, also includes the disclaimer that this in no way takes a position on the halachic issues of whether one is halachicaly feasible there in the first place

כפשוט
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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2615 on: March 08, 2023, 07:43:08 PM »


From the description (emphasis added):

Quote
Reb Asher Herson  A Shliach of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, This happened approximately the year of 1992, Rabbi Herson asked the Rebbe  whether to build a Eruv in Rockaway NJ saying that a number of people were walking to shul but with strollers etc. there were no Lubavitcher Rabbanim at the time who were involved in such projects. I wrote in saying that as a result I would turn to Rabbi Shimon Eider Who was considered the expert at the time in this area. I asked if I should undertake this big project, which it was for me at the time, and the Rebbe said to do it , and then added: without delay. Hatzlacha Rabba Umuflaga!!


So I guess this is a clear example of

In cases where people asked the Rebbe about erecting an eruv, how many (or which) of those were brought forth with the intention to save people that would anyways carry from doing so באיסור?

Which is why it was encouraged (and the condition of secrecy seems to not even be mentioned). As the Rebbe writes elsewhere, it's up to LOCAL Rabbonim to determine what the best approach and overriding considerations are.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 08:35:02 PM by ExGingi »
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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2616 on: March 08, 2023, 08:15:32 PM »
Meh, disagree. Not sure how this can possibly be seen as not in support of a secret eruv in CH.

"In other words, the Rebbe told my grandfather make an eruv, but don't tell people that there's an eruv. You should make an eruv so people who carry shouldn't transgress the biblical commandment of carrying without an eruv."

I just went back and reread the discussion, and actually listened again to the podcast.

In your quote, you (conveniently) dropped the sentence just before "in other words"!

For the benefit of those that didn't hear, at 16:08 MC says: "The Rebbe told him that he SHOULD NOT build an eruv in Crown Heights unless it's going to be hidden. In other words..."

So clearly the quote (to the extent it could be relied upon as third hand) was using a negative approach. As MC concludes a few seconds later "and that's exactly why my grandfather did not build an eiruv".
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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2617 on: March 08, 2023, 08:21:35 PM »
I just went back and reread the discussion, and actually listened again to the podcast.

In your quote, you (conveniently) dropped the sentence just before "in other words"!

For the benefit of those that didn't hear, at 16:08 MC says: "The Rebbe told him that he SHOULD NOT build an eruv in Crown Heights unless it's going to be hidden. In other words..."

So clearly the quote (to the extent it could be relied upon as third hand) was using a negative approach. As MC concludes a few seconds later "and that's exactly why my grandfather did not build an eiruv".
I quoted one line out of 30 minyand have timestamps to listen to. ::)

The conclusion was because he asked so that his wife could go to shul on Shabbos. Not so that it could be a secret and not usable lchatchila.
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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2618 on: March 08, 2023, 08:31:31 PM »
I just went back and reread the discussion, and actually listened again to the podcast.

In your quote, you (conveniently) dropped the sentence just before "in other words"!

For the benefit of those that didn't hear, at 16:08 MC says: "The Rebbe told him that he SHOULD NOT build an eruv in Crown Heights unless it's going to be hidden. In other words..."

So clearly the quote (to the extent it could be relied upon as third hand) was using a negative approach. As MC concludes a few seconds later "and that's exactly why my grandfather did not build an eiruv".
I quoted one line out of 30 minyand have timestamps to listen to. ::)

The conclusion was because he asked so that his wife could go to shul on Shabbos. Not so that it could be a secret and not usable lchatchila.

There is a major difference between "make an eruv in secret" and "don't make an eruv unless it is secret."

The first is in support of an eruv. The second means that practically speaking it should not be built.

You quoted one line where MC is adding his own way of paraphrasing ("in other words"), right after offering the quote as he heard it, which you dropped. Not an irrelevant point at a very different point within a 30 minute long conversation.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 09:02:53 PM by ExGingi »
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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2619 on: March 08, 2023, 08:35:54 PM »
You quoted one line where MC is adding his own way of paraphrasing ("in other words"), right after offering the quote as he heard it, which you dropped. Not an irrelevant point at a very different point within a 30 minutes long conversation.
I tweeted at him to chime in and he saw it. Feel free to reply there.
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