Author Topic: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything  (Read 287870 times)

Offline Euclid

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Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #360 on: May 28, 2021, 11:46:52 AM »
Why do some (American born) Lubavitchers have the heavy Chabad haavara (ay etc.) and some don't? e.g. YY Jacobson pretty much has a "regular" litvish haavara

Offline koplonko

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #361 on: May 28, 2021, 11:53:04 AM »
Why do some (American born) Lubavitchers have the heavy Chabad haavara (ay etc.) and some don't? e.g. YY Jacobson pretty much has a "regular" litvish haavara
It wasn't easy for him, he practiced for a long time

Offline M3B3LY

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #362 on: May 28, 2021, 11:55:04 AM »
Some people like going under disguise

Offline AsherO

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #363 on: May 28, 2021, 12:07:17 PM »
The first half of Perek Beis Tanya, that's where it discusses what I wrote above.

+1

Exactly what I was thinking:

והנפש השנית בישראל היא חלק אלוקה ממעל ממש...
« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 12:47:16 PM by AsherO »
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Offline M3B3LY

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #364 on: May 28, 2021, 12:29:08 PM »
והנפש השנית בישראל היא חלק אלוקה ממעל ממש...

FTFY

Offline Euclid

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #365 on: May 28, 2021, 12:36:22 PM »
It wasn't easy for him, he practiced for a long time
ah so he naturally has the regular lubavitch haavara and when he goes into public he puts on the other one?

Offline AsherO

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #366 on: May 28, 2021, 12:48:12 PM »
FTFY

Oops, typo. Thanks for the correction, I amended my original post.
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Offline Philosophypsych

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #367 on: May 28, 2021, 12:54:59 PM »
I will attempt to give a bit of an explanation:

There are different pesukim discussing from where our Neshama is sourced. The first is from בראשית ב, ו, concerning אדם הראשון, it says ויפח באפיו נשמת חיים. Meaning oppose to all of the other parts of creation, which comes from the speach of Hashem (עשרה מאמרות), our Neshama is coming from Hashem's breath (Metaphorically speaking of course), and the possuk uses the term breathing, to give us an understanding, (Since we can learn from people of how it exists above, being that Hashem created us in his image, as it says נעשה אדם כצלמינו כדמותינו) that just like our breath takes much more power, than when we just speak regularly, this is because our breath comes from a deep part within us. so too our souls, which is coming from the breath of Hashem is coming from a very deep part.

But how deep? That takes us to the next pessukim, where it mentions twice that we are sons of Hashem, once in שמות ד, כב saying בני בכורי ישראל. And a second time in ראה יד, א saying בנים אתם לה' אחריכם. Let's use us as the example again, being that a son comes originally from the thoughts of the father, that's the very first step. and the son is able to achieve and go way beyond a father's capabilities, shows us, that he's not just coming from the level of thought Which is revealed and is expressed by the father, but rather from a deeper part of the thought, the essence of thought, and then the son is able to express certain abilities, which the father couldn't. In this same way, being that we are Hashem's sons, We are coming from this same level of thought, from within Hashem - from the essence of Hashem's thought.

But still, this is just Hashem's thought... But since the rambam writes in יסודי התורה ב י, and in other places, that שהוא המדע והוא היודע. Meaning that by man there is 1) the person trying to understand, and 2) the subject he's trying to understand, it's two separate things. In contrast by Hashem it's all one, The knowledge and the knower, are all the same.

Therefore being that it's all one, if our Neshama is coming from the essence of the thought of Hashem. in reality,  our Neshama is coming from the essence of Hashem. Hence, our Neshama is from the essence of Hashem or עצמות אין סוף.

This is only touching on the subject.

I`m sorry. You were good almost until the end, but last second managed to make conclusions that the baal hatanya himself would have never dreamed of uttering.
I`ll write a proper post after work, seems the biggest misunderstanding is people equating the lashon of chelek eloka mmaal and turning that into atzmus.
Even the baal hatanya says the neshama comes from machshava which is misacheid with hashem, as we know 'הוא וחכמתו אחד', היינו שהקב''ה הוא אחד עם ספירת החכמה שלו.

But just stop saying Atzmus you guys are talking kfira in the highest degree without even knowing it, the sources you quoting are NOT saying what you saying. PERIOD.

We know that קוב''ה ואורייתא חד would you now conclude that the torah created the world as well?

Heres what the ramban al hotorah says about the neshama which the Tanya obviously doesnt disagree with.

וז''ל עה''פ ויפח באפיו נשמת חיים [בראשית ב, ז] ירמוז לנו הכתוב הזה מעלת הנפש יסודה וסודה כי הזכיר בה שם מלא ואמר כי הוא נפח בְּאַפָּיו נִשְׁמַת חַיִּים להודיע כי לא באה בו מן היסודות כאשר רמז בנֶפֶשׁ התנועה (לעיל א כ) גם לא בהשתלשלות מן השכלים הנבדלים אבל היא רוח השם הגדול מפיו דעת ותבונה כי הנופח באפי אחר מנשמתו יתן בו וזהו שנאמר (איוב לב ח) וְנִשְׁמַת שַׁדַּי תְּבִינֵם כי היא מיסוד הבינה בדרך אמת ואמונה והוא מאמרם בספרי (ריש פרשת מטות) נדרים כנשבע בחיי המלך שבועות כנשבע במלך עצמו אף על פי שאין ראיה לדבר זכר לדבר חַי ה' וְחֵי נַפְשְׁךָ וגומר (מלכים ב ד ל), עכל''ק.

I will talk to some knowledgeable Chabad people I have no safek that will not in a billion years dare say what you guys are saying.

Offline Dan

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #368 on: May 28, 2021, 01:00:15 PM »
I`m sorry. You were good almost until the end, but last second managed to make conclusions that the baal hatanya himself would have never dreamed of uttering.
I`ll write a proper post after work, seems the biggest misunderstanding is people equating the lashon of chelek eloka mmaal and turning that into atzmus.
Even the baal hatanya says the neshama comes from machshava which is misacheid with hashem, as we know 'הוא וחכמתו אחד', היינו שהקב''ה הוא אחד עם ספירת החכמה שלו.

But just stop saying Atzmus you guys are talking kfira in the highest degree without even knowing it, the sources you quoting are NOT saying what you saying. PERIOD.

We know that קוב''ה ואורייתא חד would you now conclude that the torah created the world as well?

Heres what the ramban al hotorah says about the neshama which the Tanya obviously doesnt disagree with.

וז''ל עה''פ ויפח באפיו נשמת חיים [בראשית ב, ז] ירמוז לנו הכתוב הזה מעלת הנפש יסודה וסודה כי הזכיר בה שם מלא ואמר כי הוא נפח בְּאַפָּיו נִשְׁמַת חַיִּים להודיע כי לא באה בו מן היסודות כאשר רמז בנֶפֶשׁ התנועה (לעיל א כ) גם לא בהשתלשלות מן השכלים הנבדלים אבל היא רוח השם הגדול מפיו דעת ותבונה כי הנופח באפי אחר מנשמתו יתן בו וזהו שנאמר (איוב לב ח) וְנִשְׁמַת שַׁדַּי תְּבִינֵם כי היא מיסוד הבינה בדרך אמת ואמונה והוא מאמרם בספרי (ריש פרשת מטות) נדרים כנשבע בחיי המלך שבועות כנשבע במלך עצמו אף על פי שאין ראיה לדבר זכר לדבר חַי ה' וְחֵי נַפְשְׁךָ וגומר (מלכים ב ד ל), עכל''ק.

I will talk to some knowledgeable Chabad people I have no safek that will not in a billion years dare say what you guys are saying.
I'm not a scholar. I'll let Rabbi YY or @Freddie tackle this.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #369 on: May 28, 2021, 01:30:29 PM »
I`m sorry. You were good almost until the end, but last second managed to make conclusions that the baal hatanya himself would have never dreamed of uttering.
I`ll write a proper post after work, seems the biggest misunderstanding is people equating the lashon of chelek eloka mmaal and turning that into atzmus.
Even the baal hatanya says the neshama comes from machshava which is misacheid with hashem, as we know 'הוא וחכמתו אחד', היינו שהקב''ה הוא אחד עם ספירת החכמה שלו.

But just stop saying Atzmus you guys are talking kfira in the highest degree without even knowing it, the sources you quoting are NOT saying what you saying. PERIOD.

We know that קוב''ה ואורייתא חד would you now conclude that the torah created the world as well?

Heres what the ramban al hotorah says about the neshama which the Tanya obviously doesnt disagree with.

וז''ל עה''פ ויפח באפיו נשמת חיים [בראשית ב, ז] ירמוז לנו הכתוב הזה מעלת הנפש יסודה וסודה כי הזכיר בה שם מלא ואמר כי הוא נפח בְּאַפָּיו נִשְׁמַת חַיִּים להודיע כי לא באה בו מן היסודות כאשר רמז בנֶפֶשׁ התנועה (לעיל א כ) גם לא בהשתלשלות מן השכלים הנבדלים אבל היא רוח השם הגדול מפיו דעת ותבונה כי הנופח באפי אחר מנשמתו יתן בו וזהו שנאמר (איוב לב ח) וְנִשְׁמַת שַׁדַּי תְּבִינֵם כי היא מיסוד הבינה בדרך אמת ואמונה והוא מאמרם בספרי (ריש פרשת מטות) נדרים כנשבע בחיי המלך שבועות כנשבע במלך עצמו אף על פי שאין ראיה לדבר זכר לדבר חַי ה' וְחֵי נַפְשְׁךָ וגומר (מלכים ב ד ל), עכל''ק.

I will talk to some knowledgeable Chabad people I have no safek that will not in a billion years dare say what you guys are saying.

I too am not a scholar, which is why I have refrained from commenting on the nuances and difference. I did actually happen to meet @Freddie in person last night and asked him to chime in. I hope he will do so soon enough.

But despite not being a scholar, I suspect that some of the issues and differences might be related to צמצום כפשוטו vs צמצום לאו כפשוטו.

BTW, if you learned Tanya you might be aware that the A"R addresses the disagreement of the Maharal with the Rambam regarding הוא היודע הוא הידוע והוא הדעה.

« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 01:39:23 PM by ExGingi »
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Offline jew

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #370 on: May 28, 2021, 01:38:49 PM »
I`m sorry. You were good almost until the end, but last second managed to make conclusions that the baal hatanya himself would have never dreamed of uttering.
I`ll write a proper post after work, seems the biggest misunderstanding is people equating the lashon of chelek eloka mmaal and turning that into atzmus.
Even the baal hatanya says the neshama comes from machshava which is misacheid with hashem, as we know 'הוא וחכמתו אחד', היינו שהקב''ה הוא אחד עם ספירת החכמה שלו.

But just stop saying Atzmus you guys are talking kfira in the highest degree without even knowing it, the sources you quoting are NOT saying what you saying. PERIOD.

We know that קוב''ה ואורייתא חד would you now conclude that the torah created the world as well?

Heres what the ramban al hotorah says about the neshama which the Tanya obviously doesnt disagree with.

וז''ל עה''פ ויפח באפיו נשמת חיים [בראשית ב, ז] ירמוז לנו הכתוב הזה מעלת הנפש יסודה וסודה כי הזכיר בה שם מלא ואמר כי הוא נפח בְּאַפָּיו נִשְׁמַת חַיִּים להודיע כי לא באה בו מן היסודות כאשר רמז בנֶפֶשׁ התנועה (לעיל א כ) גם לא בהשתלשלות מן השכלים הנבדלים אבל היא רוח השם הגדול מפיו דעת ותבונה כי הנופח באפי אחר מנשמתו יתן בו וזהו שנאמר (איוב לב ח) וְנִשְׁמַת שַׁדַּי תְּבִינֵם כי היא מיסוד הבינה בדרך אמת ואמונה והוא מאמרם בספרי (ריש פרשת מטות) נדרים כנשבע בחיי המלך שבועות כנשבע במלך עצמו אף על פי שאין ראיה לדבר זכר לדבר חַי ה' וְחֵי נַפְשְׁךָ וגומר (מלכים ב ד ל), עכל''ק.

I will talk to some knowledgeable Chabad people I have no safek that will not in a billion years dare say what you guys are saying.
Again, just because we come from עצמות doesnt mean we are G-D and can create!
שפע טל  is the main source of the alter rebbe for adding the word ממש...

Offline AsherO

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #371 on: May 28, 2021, 02:01:39 PM »
That the נשמה is מושרש in עצמות is a tenet of Chabad Chassidus. I’m not an expert on Kabbalah and nistar beyond Chabad Chassidus.

It’s not for one foot,  it’s a very cohesive body of study so you can’t choose two one or two sources and try to understand it all.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #372 on: May 28, 2021, 02:05:29 PM »
Really?!? If I had difficulty understanding his meaning when reading the piece, not in a billion years cud that recording provide any additional clarity! Lol...Idk how the people understood, he doesn't speak exceptionally clear to say the least, and he talks quite fast, with that tune, my gosh, whoever wrote over that maamer just from hearing him say it once live, is a genius.

I posted the link to the audio in response to your question

Firstly, who's the author? Is this the latest rebbe's writings? Style is very different than the תניא, and he keeps saying things like "כידוע" and the like, and most of the time the footnotes show other ספרי חב"ד as the referance, and as I said I am unlearned in their seforim.

After the Rebbe accepted the נשיאות AFAIK (or can recall) all written/printed Torah (with the exception of private אגרות) were written/edited by others, either based on a transcription of the Rebbe's talk, or at the Rebbe's behest (and occasionally a compilation from several sources and talks which was given to the Rebbe for הגהה).

Specifically the Rebbe's maamorim (definitely those which were published מוגה by the Rebbe since the mid Mems (1980s. I can only state what I know for certain and personally observed as fact, this might be true regarding מאמרים מוגהים from earlier years too) were written by R' Yoel Kahan, with מראי מקומות being added by a person or team that were good at that, and some מראי מקומות added by the Rebbe himself. After initial writing, editing and adding מראי מקומות, it was given to the Rebbe for review, at which point the Rebbe might edit, add, annotate, etc. and return it to the publishers, who would incorporate the Rebbe's notes and edits prior to final publishing.

Whenever the printed version was based on a weekday talk, those were mostly recorded, so a verbatim transcript was used as an aid.

It should also be noted that most maamorim are based on earlier ones. One of the key elements before preparing for publishing is figuring out which earlier maamorim the Rebbe is basing the current maamar on. You will often see as the first or second footnote which maamorim the current one is based on.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 02:11:15 PM by ExGingi »
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Offline Jellybelly

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #373 on: May 28, 2021, 02:11:50 PM »
So you will be one of the one's going Huh instead of Aha ;)

It seems out of print but I think Mystical Concepts In Chassidism does a good job of introducing and giving a broad understanding to this whole topic https://store.kehotonline.com/prodinfo.asp?number=em-mystc

ETA: Listing page lists the book as printed in the back of https://store.kehotonline.com/prodinfo.asp?number=EAR-TANY.L also available from other stores https://www.judaicaplace.com/tanya-hebrew-and-english-large-size-hardcover/9780826604002/
Is this missionary activity? Good thing you’re not in Israel!
😜

Offline neveryou

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #374 on: May 28, 2021, 02:25:17 PM »
ah so he naturally has the regular lubavitch haavara and when he goes into public he puts on the other one?
In public YY puts on a show

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #375 on: May 28, 2021, 02:33:21 PM »
Come on people. My accent changes based on who I'm speaking to. Put me in a room with @Dawie and I'll sound like I've never left South Africa. I'm day to day life many people don't even pick up I have a South African accent at all. And my Yiddish? In Crown Heights itself it will change from speaking to my Russian grandmother or American kids.

And if I'm in Boro Park, they don't even realize I'm speaking Yiddish  :P

Offline M3B3LY

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #376 on: May 28, 2021, 02:33:39 PM »

 I rest my case.
You might find this letter of the Rebbe very interesting, it discusses this exact נשמת חיים, in connection with this piece of Tanya.

https://igros.app/#/vol10/3311
« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 02:44:03 PM by M3B3LY »

Offline Dawie

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #377 on: May 28, 2021, 02:39:03 PM »
Come on people. My accent changes based on who I'm speaking to. Put me in a room with @Dawie and I'll sound like I've never left South Africa. I'm day to day life many people don't even pick up I have a South African accent at all. And my Yiddish? In Crown Heights itself it will change from speaking to my Russian grandmother or American kids.

And if I'm in Boro Park, they don't even realize I'm speaking Yiddish  :P
+1000000
but if you're speaking to an American how do you say "grass"


Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #378 on: May 28, 2021, 02:40:54 PM »
+1000000
but if you're speaking to an American how do you say "grass"

I sell face masks. How do you think the last year has been?

Offline Euclid

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #379 on: May 28, 2021, 02:47:36 PM »
I sell face masks. How do you think the last year has been?
You sell mosques?