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Offline Philosophypsych

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #280 on: May 27, 2021, 11:12:14 AM »
https://www.chabad.org/dailystudy/hayomyom.asp?tdate=04/17/2021

רבינו הזקן קבל מר'[בי] מרדכי הצדיק ששמע מהבעש"ט [מהבעל שם טוב]: עס קומט אראפ א נשמה אויף דער וועלט און לעבט אפ זיבעציג אכציג יאהר, צוליב טאן א אידען א טובה בגשמיות ובפרט אין רוחניות.

The Alter Rebbe received the following teaching from the tzadik Reb Mordechai, who had heard it from the Baal Shem Tov: A soul may descend to this world and live seventy or eighty years,1 in order to do a Jew a material favor, and certainly a spiritual one.
Why is this something fascinating? Is the chiddush that even for Gemillas Chasodim? Meaning, this is absolutely true in regards to 1 word of Torah as well, not just that, but we know this is true even for the reward of saying 1 Amen! Can you clarify what this statement from the baal shem tov adds?

And logically, this is obviously a no-brainer, considering that שׂכר is נצחיות, it would be worth living in צער for 500 years for the reward of 1 mitzvah. This is the reason for the chaza"l saying שׂכר מצוה בּהאי עלמא ליכּא, being that our finite world is incapable of containing something of the Infinite nature.

I believe the Baal Shem Tov's statement, would be true in regards to any mitzvah in the Torah as well as for any mitzvah מדרבּנן.
 

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #281 on: May 27, 2021, 11:29:49 AM »
Why is this something fascinating? Is the chiddush that even for Gemillas Chasodim? Meaning, this is absolutely true in regards to 1 word of Torah as well, not just that, but we know this is true even for the reward of saying 1 Amen! Can you clarify what this statement from the baal shem tov adds?

And logically, this is obviously a no-brainer, considering that שׂכר is נצחיות, it would be worth living in צער for 500 years for the reward of 1 mitzvah. This is the reason for the chaza"l saying שׂכר מצוה בּהאי עלמא ליכּא, being that our finite world is incapable of containing something of the Infinite nature.

I believe the Baal Shem Tov's statement, would be true in regards to any mitzvah in the Torah as well as for any mitzvah מדרבּנן.

You seem to be missing the point.

There's nothing here about שכר.

It's 100% about the reason a נשמה was sent down to this world, 0% about the reward.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Dan

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #282 on: May 27, 2021, 11:41:29 AM »
You seem to be missing the point.

There's nothing here about שכר.

It's 100% about the reason a נשמה was sent down to this world, 0% about the reward.
Going off on a tangent, but in general, שכר ועונש are not used as motivators or even factors in Chabad עבודה or philosophy.
For me, that was a refreshing change going from a litvisher school to a Chabad school.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline whYME

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #283 on: May 27, 2021, 11:42:28 AM »
"Ah mench tracht un G-d lacht", Tracht gut vet zein gut
I'm pretty sure the only connection or similarity between these two quotes is the word "tracht."

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #284 on: May 27, 2021, 11:45:55 AM »
I'm pretty sure the only connection or similarity between these two quotes is the word "tracht."

He was quoting two different songs, based on two different pisgamim

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #285 on: May 27, 2021, 11:46:34 AM »
I'm pretty sure the only connection or similarity between these two quotes is the word "tracht."
They are both lines that would I can attribute to the Tzemach Tzedek and a non-Lubabvitcher would believe me.

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #286 on: May 27, 2021, 11:49:25 AM »
He was quoting two different songs, based on two different pisgamim
This.

Schnitzler also has a song based on a non-tracht-related quote from the Tzemach Tzedek on this album

Offline Philosophypsych

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #287 on: May 27, 2021, 12:05:43 PM »
You seem to be missing the point.

There's nothing here about שכר.

It's 100% about the reason a נשמה was sent down to this world, 0% about the reward.
Hmm, that is interesting.
My hashkafa was always very different. There is one overall Tachlis Habriya, and that is כּדי להיטב לזולתו, and therefore our mission in life is to merit להתענג על ד׳ which will be לעתיד לבא and we can attain that through all and any of the the תרי״ג mitzvos.

So yeah גמילות חסדים is one of those, however saying that the reason a person is here is to do someone a טובה just seems inaccurate.
I dont understand this idea of specifying any one over the other, something along the lines of הוי זהיר במצוה קלה...

(This is obviously not taking into consideration each independant persons reason for being here based off his neshama and previous gilgulim, we talking about humanity in general.)

Offline chbochur

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #288 on: May 27, 2021, 12:15:56 PM »
Hmm, that is interesting.
My hashkafa was always very different. There is one overall Tachlis Habriya, and that is כּדי להיטב לזולתו, and therefore our mission in life is to merit להתענג על ד׳ which will be לעתיד לבא and we can attain that through all and any of the the תרי״ג mitzvos.

So yeah גמילות חסדים is one of those, however saying that the reason a person is here is to do someone a טובה just seems inaccurate.
I dont understand this idea of specifying any one over the other, something along the lines of הוי זהיר במצוה קלה...

(This is obviously not taking into consideration each independant persons reason for being here based off his neshama and previous gilgulim, we talking about humanity in general.)
Number 11 of the 12 pesukim and maamorei razal which is on the tongue of every chabad youngster
וְזֶה כָּל הָאָדָם וְתַכְלִית בְּרִיאָתוֹ וּבְרִיאַת כָּל הָעוֹלָמוֹת, עֶלְיוֹנִים וְתַחְתּוֹנִים, לִהְיוֹת לוֹ יִתְבָּרֵךְ דִּירָה בְּתַחְתּוֹנִים.
(Taken from Tanya chap 33)

This is a fundamental mindset of chabad philosophy.
I was created simply to do my part in making this (lowest of all) world a dwelling place for hakadosh boruch hu which can be done by doing Torah and mitzvos as well as by transforming the negative (or mundane) to positive and kedusha.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #289 on: May 27, 2021, 12:20:17 PM »
Hmm, that is interesting.
My hashkafa was always very different.

Indeed!

There is one overall Tachlis Habriya, and that is כּדי להיטב לזולתו, and therefore our mission in life is to merit להתענג על ד׳ which will be לעתיד לבא and we can attain that through all and any of the the תרי״ג mitzvos.

May I refer you to one @Dan's favorite Maamorim. I suggest you at least read it, if not learn it, and then come back to comment.

So yeah גמילות חסדים is one of those, however saying that the reason a person is here is to do someone a טובה just seems inaccurate.
I dont understand this idea of specifying any one over the other, something along the lines of הוי זהיר במצוה קלה...

(This is obviously not taking into consideration each independant persons reason for being here based off his neshama and previous gilgulim, we talking about humanity in general.)

I think your comment in parentheses might explain your misunderstanding (and maybe I am misunderstanding, I paging scholars such as @Freddie to clarify or correct me).

The statement of the Ba'al Shem Tov quoted is referring to the possibility of that being the ONLY REASON an individual neshama might have been sent down to this world, not about "humanity in general".

Also see: https://chabadlibrary.org/books/admur/hymym/13/8.htm
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 01:15:42 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline whYME

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #290 on: May 27, 2021, 12:23:47 PM »
He was quoting two different songs, based on two different pisgamim
That much I understood. I was commenting on his grouping together of those two quotes/songs. (I'm not familiar with either song.)

Offline Philosophypsych

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #291 on: May 27, 2021, 01:02:03 PM »


May I refer you to one @Dan's favorite Maamorim. I suggest you at least read it, if not learn it, and then come back to comment.


Will deff check out the מאמר ביום עשתי עשר תשל"א.

Offline Philosophypsych

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #292 on: May 27, 2021, 01:03:11 PM »

I think your comment in parentheses might explain your misunderstanding (and maybe I am misunderstanding, I paging scholars such as @Freddie to clarify or correct me).

The statement of the Ba'al Shem Tov quoted is referring to the possibility of that being the ONLY REASON an individual neshama might have been sent down to this world, not about "humanity in general".

Also see: https://chabadlibrary.org/books/admur/hymym/13/8.htm

Think about that statement. The 2 ideas must be intimately related, so if indeed chabad claims that the ultimate purpose is וְזֶה כָּל הָאָדָם וְתַכְלִית בְּרִיאָתוֹ וּבְרִיאַת כָּל הָעוֹלָמוֹת, עֶלְיוֹנִים וְתַחְתּוֹנִים, לִהְיוֹת לוֹ יִתְבָּרֵךְ דִּירָה בְּתַחְתּוֹנִים how do you reconcile that with the statement of the besh"t that the reason our neshama was sent down is to do a chesed for another yid?! Also, it cant be so simple. As there were two phases in this world, that of קודם החטא and לאחר החטא and the whole idea of an independent Neshama having a mission is only the case לאחר החטא, as before that it was just Adam , now, all of us are simply trying to rectify his /our   חטא being that all of our neshamos are just different branches or twigs of the original tree, כי האדם עץ השדה. Are you also ready to claim that adams mission was to do a yid a favor? If not, at what point did this become the reason of a persons existence?

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #293 on: May 27, 2021, 01:07:39 PM »
Think about that statement. The 2 ideas must be intimately related, so if indeed chabad claims that the ultimate purpose is וְזֶה כָּל הָאָדָם וְתַכְלִית בְּרִיאָתוֹ וּבְרִיאַת כָּל הָעוֹלָמוֹת, עֶלְיוֹנִים וְתַחְתּוֹנִים, לִהְיוֹת לוֹ יִתְבָּרֵךְ דִּירָה בְּתַחְתּוֹנִים how do you reconcile that with the statement of the besh"t that the reason our neshama was sent down is to do a chesed for another yid?! Also, it cant be so simple. As there were two phases in this world, that of קודם החטא and לאחר החטא and the whole idea of an independent Neshama having a mission is only the case לאחר החטא, as before that it was just Adam , now, all of us are simply trying to rectify his /our   חטא being that all of our neshamos are just different branches or twigs of the original tree, כי האדם עץ השדה. Are you also ready to claim that adams mission was to do a yid a favor? If not, at what point did this become the reason of a persons existence?

Now you need to study another fundemental Ma'amar באתי לגני (or at the very least read the first part thereof).

And you seem to be ignoring what I wrote above:

The statement of the Ba'al Shem Tov quoted is referring to the possibility of that being the ONLY REASON an individual neshama might have been sent down to this world, not about "humanity in general".
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 01:19:00 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Philosophypsych

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #294 on: May 27, 2021, 01:24:22 PM »
I am trying to explain to you, that there really is no such thing as an individual neshama.
But working with your logic, All of these individual neshamos are here for the same reason, that is to do others favors? Are they not ALL here to rectify the חטא of adam?!

Do you mean that doing others favors is somehow the road to us rectifying that חטא of adam??

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #295 on: May 27, 2021, 01:28:00 PM »
I am trying to explain to you, that there really is no such thing as an individual neshama.
But working with your logic, All of these individual neshamos are here for the same reason, that is to do others favors? Are they not ALL here to rectify the חטא of adam?!

Do you mean that doing others favors is somehow the road to us rectifying that חטא of adam??

Check out the first part of באתי לגני and read ביום עשתי עשר יום and then we can have an intelligent conversation.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Philosophypsych

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #296 on: May 27, 2021, 01:58:57 PM »
Check out the first part of באתי לגני and read ביום עשתי עשר יום and then we can have an intelligent conversation.

Okay will do.

(Feel like I really should give you homework as well :)

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #297 on: May 27, 2021, 02:00:20 PM »
Okay will do.
שכר
(Feel like I really should give you homework as well :)
עונש

Offline Dan

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #298 on: May 27, 2021, 02:03:56 PM »
Check out the first part of באתי לגני and read ביום עשתי עשר יום and then we can have an intelligent conversation.
Are there Chasidic heritage series books or good translations for these maamorim?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #299 on: May 27, 2021, 02:07:49 PM »
Are there Chasidic heritage series books or good translations for these maamorim?

I posted above a link for ביום עשתי עשר יום translated (sorry, I didn't read, English is not my learning language).

learn it,

You also have the SIE translation: https://www.sie.org/templates/sie/article_cdo/aid/2640660/jewish/I-Will-Choose-the-King.htm

I am sure there must be something for באתי לגני, I was referring to the simple concepts brought in the first אות of עיקר שכינה בתחתונים, followed by הסתלקות due to חטא עץ הדעת and bringing it back down. Not even going into משכן ומקדש, עצי שטים, שטות דקדושה etc.

https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/article_cdo/aid/115102/jewish/Basi-Legani-5710-Chapter-1.htm
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 02:11:49 PM by ExGingi »
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