Author Topic: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything  (Read 376664 times)

Offline chinagel

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 3947
  • Total likes: 405
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: brooklyn
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2380 on: February 26, 2023, 11:49:16 PM »
https://anash.org/please-listen-to-me-a-teenager-with-a-broken-heart/
Is this opinion, especially the comments, a common opinion in Lubavitch circles?

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 5524
  • Total likes: 15911
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2381 on: February 27, 2023, 12:10:05 AM »
https://anash.org/please-listen-to-me-a-teenager-with-a-broken-heart/
Is this opinion, especially the comments, a common opinion in Lubavitch circles?

I didn't read a single comment, and skimmed through the article. It's your question of most Lubavitchers believe phones are damaging to parenting and/or other relationships?

Offline chinagel

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 3947
  • Total likes: 405
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: brooklyn
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2382 on: February 27, 2023, 12:25:37 AM »
I didn't read a single comment, and skimmed through the article. It's your question of most Lubavitchers believe phones are damaging to parenting and/or other relationships?
Not most, just a common opinion. Overall, is there a common view of smartphones as a large negative the way it is in many other communities. There was also a comparison to TV and discussion of wasting time/lack of productivity, besides the damage to relationships.

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 5524
  • Total likes: 15911
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2383 on: February 27, 2023, 12:34:41 AM »
Not most, just a common opinion. Overall, is there a common view of smartphones as a large negative the way it is in many other communities. There was also a comparison to TV and discussion of wasting time/lack of productivity, besides the damage to relationships.

I'd guess it's a common opinion throughout all segments of society

Offline chinagel

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 3947
  • Total likes: 405
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: brooklyn
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2384 on: February 27, 2023, 12:41:57 AM »
I guess my question is: In places like BP, Williamsburg, Lakewood, Monsey etc. there is a common sentiment that smartphones are a churban to Yiddishkeit. Many people won't own one no matter what. Many moisdos, with varying degrees of enforcement, don't accept kids whos parents have smartphones. I've seen signs in bungalow colonies and shuls not allowing anyone to bring one on the premises. Owners of smartphones can't daven for the amud etc.
From my very limited interaction with Lubavitchers, I have never seen one with a flip phone. I haven't picked up any feelings of it being something terrible to be avoided. The article and comments gave off that vibe. So I was wondering if that vibe is a common one, or just a few yechidim.

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5141
  • Total likes: 6402
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2385 on: February 27, 2023, 01:24:46 AM »
I guess my question is: In places like BP, Williamsburg, Lakewood, Monsey etc. there is a common sentiment that smartphones are a churban to Yiddishkeit. Many people won't own one no matter what. Many moisdos, with varying degrees of enforcement, don't accept kids whos parents have smartphones. I've seen signs in bungalow colonies and shuls not allowing anyone to bring one on the premises. Owners of smartphones can't daven for the amud etc.
From my very limited interaction with Lubavitchers, I have never seen one with a flip phone. I haven't picked up any feelings of it being something terrible to be avoided. The article and comments gave off that vibe. So I was wondering if that vibe is a common one, or just a few yechidim.

Your question isn't related to the article. The author's issue is one that all segments of society are dealing with.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline Luvtotravel

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 3093
  • Total likes: 155
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Ny
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2386 on: February 27, 2023, 01:28:53 AM »
Your question isn't related to the article. The author's issue is one that all segments of society are dealing with.
his question is related to the second
comment
Don't wait for the perfect moment; take the moment and make it perfect.

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 5524
  • Total likes: 15911
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2387 on: February 27, 2023, 01:30:49 AM »
I guess my question is: In places like BP, Williamsburg, Lakewood, Monsey etc. there is a common sentiment that smartphones are a churban to Yiddishkeit. Many people won't own one no matter what. Many moisdos, with varying degrees of enforcement, don't accept kids whos parents have smartphones. I've seen signs in bungalow colonies and shuls not allowing anyone to bring one on the premises. Owners of smartphones can't daven for the amud etc.
From my very limited interaction with Lubavitchers, I have never seen one with a flip phone. I haven't picked up any feelings of it being something terrible to be avoided. The article and comments gave off that vibe. So I was wondering if that vibe is a common one, or just a few yechidim.

There are plenty of Lubavitchers with flip phones, ואשרי חלקם, though I will grant you, nowhere close to the amount you find in other Chassidishe communities.

People can be aware of the problems something has but still succumb to the yetzer Hora.

Phones were never classified as "treif" quite like TVs, perhaps because their utility caused them to become ubiquitous before people realized the danger.

I have a smartphone, I'm quite aware of the hazards, but still have it. There are popular initiatives to curb their use, especially among kids, such as MUST.

Lubavitch in general doesn't ban or kick people out for non conformity. Some believe it's to our detriment, personally I disagree for reasons I'm not going to get into now.

Online EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 3611
  • Total likes: 4236
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2388 on: February 27, 2023, 01:47:35 AM »

Lubavitch in general doesn't ban or kick people out for non conformity.

I'm sure this doesn't apply to bochurim in Yeshiva and girls in high school, right? What are the enforcements like?

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 5524
  • Total likes: 15911
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2389 on: February 27, 2023, 06:33:53 AM »
I'm sure this doesn't apply to bochurim in Yeshiva and girls in high school, right? What are the enforcements like?

Sadly, you are correct. Though, I'd guess it is still significantly less than other communities. S for enforcement, depends on the school and the infraction, though I wish schools were significantly more judicious about throwing kids out

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 19436
  • Total likes: 15861
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2390 on: February 27, 2023, 09:51:16 AM »
In most chassidishe communities it was the strng stand taken by the Rebbe against smartphones that led to this result. In Yeshivishe corcles it was the strong stand taken by R Mattisyahu Solomon who was very literally moser nefesh over it and a number of roshei yeshiva that led to this result. Does the Lubavitch community currently (or within the last 20 years) have anyone with enough authority to implement such a thing?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline drosenberg88429

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2020
  • Posts: 595
  • Total likes: 1147
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2391 on: February 27, 2023, 10:12:20 AM »
I always assumed it was a cultural difference. It's very difficult to celebrate your members who go to remote corners of the country and globe, which necessities technology to stay connected to family, friends, community members you're working with, and like minded individuals; for Jewish education and content for the children; for fundraising; and for navigating the foreign environment which one lives in; while simultaneously pushing an anti technology campaign. In addition, Chabad doesn't promote insulating oneself from the outside world the way other chassisim and yeshiva communities do. On the contrary, they support entering and engaging with the world in the public and secular sphere to have a positive effect, both on the Jews the encounter to be mekarev and have do mitzvos, and the non Jews they can positively influence. In everything in life, when you have to make a choice of try conflicting goals, it's going to come down to a matter of prioritization. I assumed Chabad made a conscious choice to prioritize the shlichus, kiruv, and public engagement model over the insularity model. Like everything in life, that comes with costs.


Disclaimer: IANAL (I am not a Lubavitcher).

Offline mevinyavin

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Sep 2022
  • Posts: 2631
  • Total likes: 3090
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Laptop help/deal request template
  • Location: Yerushalayim
  • Programs: Windows 10 and 11 Home, Word/Excel/Publisher 2021, Wordweb, McGill English Dictionary of Rhyme, VLC, Torat Emet, 7-Zip, Lightshot, Calibre, FDM, FreeFileSync, Teracopy, Handbrake, Lightshot
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2392 on: February 27, 2023, 10:27:01 AM »
I always assumed it was a cultural difference. It's very difficult to celebrate your members who go to remote corners of the country and globe, which necessities technology to stay connected to family, friends, community members you're working with, and like minded individuals; for Jewish education and content for the children; for fundraising; and for navigating the foreign environment which one lives in; while simultaneously pushing an anti technology campaign. In addition, Chabad doesn't promote insulating oneself from the outside world the way other chassisim and yeshiva communities do. On the contrary, they support entering and engaging with the world in the public and secular sphere to have a positive effect, both on the Jews the encounter to be mekarev and have do mitzvos, and the non Jews they can positively influence. In everything in life, when you have to make a choice of try conflicting goals, it's going to come down to a matter of prioritization. I assumed Chabad made a conscious choice to prioritize the shlichus, kiruv, and public engagement model over the insularity model. Like everything in life, that comes with costs.


Disclaimer: IANAL (I am not a Lubavitcher).
Beautiful post.
RYBs said bisheim the Maharal or the Vilna Gaon (don't remember which): Why do the Mishnayos in Avos quote only a few things about huge people, who surely said or lived with far more wonderful aspects of their Yiddishkeit? The Maharal/Gaon explains that these things were applied 100% by the Tanaim and Amoraim in question. However, it is only possible to take two, or max three, aspects of Yiddishkeit all the way to the top before they start to conflict with each other.
There are so many beautiful ways to serve Hashem, but they are not all compatible with each other. IMHO, this is why more tolerance of the neshamos of others is crucial. I tell myself: So they chose something else, incompatible with you (or so I think, but let's allow that for the purposes of this monologue). This is no reason for me to knock it. I don't have their shoresh haneshama. If I am not their Rebbe (at least, or someone who could be expected to volunteer my opinion when it wasn't asked for), I have no idea what Hashem wants from them in life. I need to get off my pedestal and love every Jew unconditionally.

Thanks for listening!  ;D
Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 70336
  • Total likes: 19605
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2393 on: February 27, 2023, 11:33:18 AM »
I always assumed it was a cultural difference. It's very difficult to celebrate your members who go to remote corners of the country and globe, which necessities technology to stay connected to family, friends, community members you're working with, and like minded individuals; for Jewish education and content for the children; for fundraising; and for navigating the foreign environment which one lives in; while simultaneously pushing an anti technology campaign. In addition, Chabad doesn't promote insulating oneself from the outside world the way other chassisim and yeshiva communities do. On the contrary, they support entering and engaging with the world in the public and secular sphere to have a positive effect, both on the Jews the encounter to be mekarev and have do mitzvos, and the non Jews they can positively influence. In everything in life, when you have to make a choice of try conflicting goals, it's going to come down to a matter of prioritization. I assumed Chabad made a conscious choice to prioritize the shlichus, kiruv, and public engagement model over the insularity model. Like everything in life, that comes with costs.


Disclaimer: IANAL (I am not a Lubavitcher).

In other words, Chabad philosophy is based around fulfilling what moshiach told the Besh"t and making a Dirah Betachtonim in all corners of the planet. That requires going out into the world and engaging with it, and hopefully being armed for that mission during our youth in yeshiva.

The meraglim represent the antithesis of chabad philosophy, where they wanted to just stay in the desert and learn without having to improve the outside world and deal with its challenges.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2023, 11:38:25 AM by Dan »
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 5524
  • Total likes: 15911
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2394 on: February 27, 2023, 11:36:34 AM »
I always assumed it was a cultural difference. It's very difficult to celebrate your members who go to remote corners of the country and globe, which necessities technology to stay connected to family, friends, community members you're working with, and like minded individuals; for Jewish education and content for the children; for fundraising; and for navigating the foreign environment which one lives in; while simultaneously pushing an anti technology campaign.

If Shlichus necessitates technology like smartphones, how did the Shluchim do their work in the '50s -'90s? The Rebbe's approach to technology was to use it for good, from the early days of shiurim on the radio and broadcasting farbrengens on Cable TV to Chabad pioneering use of the internet long before it was even close to being mainstream. But using technology for Shlichus doesn't necessitate or encourage personal use. No one was under any illusions that having cable tV was ok because the Rebbe's farbrengens were broadcast on it.

In addition, Chabad doesn't promote insulating oneself from the outside world the way other chassisim and yeshiva communities do. On the contrary, they support entering and engaging with the world in the public and secular sphere to have a positive effect, both on the Jews the encounter to be mekarev and have do mitzvos, and the non Jews they can positively influence.
This is correct, IMHO.

In everything in life, when you have to make a choice of try conflicting goals, it's going to come down to a matter of prioritization. I assumed Chabad made a conscious choice to prioritize the shlichus, kiruv, and public engagement model over the insularity model. Like everything in life, that comes with costs.
This is incorrect, IMHO. I do not believe the Rebbe ever viewed them as conflicting goals at all. The Rebbe's mission statement from the beginning of his nesius was you cannot have one without the other. If your avodas Hashem is going to be done to its fullest, it cannot be without helping others at the same time:



At no stage did the Rebbe ever even hint at lowering personal standards, caving to modernity, or "sacrificing" for the purposes of Shlichus.
 
Disclaimer: IANAL (I am not a Lubavitcher).

I'll let ExGingi correct this one, but I'll use this to add my own disclaimer, even though it is self-understood: I am a Lubavitcher, but these posts are my opinions reflecting my understanding and are not in any way "Lubavitch policy" or ideology.

In most chassidishe communities it was the strng stand taken by the Rebbe against smartphones that led to this result. In Yeshivishe corcles it was the strong stand taken by R Mattisyahu Solomon who was very literally moser nefesh over it and a number of roshei yeshiva that led to this result. Does the Lubavitch community currently (or within the last 20 years) have anyone with enough authority to implement such a thing?

Again, Chabad's approach, i.e. the Rebbe's approach, was not to ban things or kick people out of mosdos. The Rebbe spoke out against people having TVs (I don't know how much, if very much at all), but to my knowledge, the Rebbe did not instruct hanhala to kick out a bochur because they watched TV or because the family had a TV.



Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 19436
  • Total likes: 15861
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2395 on: February 27, 2023, 12:52:14 PM »



Again, Chabad's approach, i.e. the Rebbe's approach, was not to ban things or kick people out of mosdos. The Rebbe spoke out against people having TVs (I don't know how much, if very much at all), but to my knowledge, the Rebbe did not instruct hanhala to kick out a bochur because they watched TV or because the family had a TV.
My question was not at all about banning or kicking out of mosdos.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 5524
  • Total likes: 15911
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2396 on: February 27, 2023, 01:08:17 PM »
My question was not at all about banning or kicking out of mosdos.

Your question is about who will tell us that smartphones are bad?

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 19436
  • Total likes: 15861
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2397 on: February 27, 2023, 01:39:50 PM »
Your question is about who will tell us that smartphones are bad?
Because of the strong stand taken it has become socially unacceptable to have a smartphone in some chassidish and yeshivish circles, especially for single boys and girls. Many feel they need to excuse themselves about why they have a smartphone and to have one purely for entertainment or minor convenience is much less common. The impression I am getting from this thread is that it is not the same in Lubavitch circles and that smartphones are more common even compared to groups that have no fear of being thrown out of anywhere.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 5524
  • Total likes: 15911
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2398 on: February 27, 2023, 02:40:49 PM »
Because of the strong stand taken it has become socially unacceptable to have a smartphone in some chassidish and yeshivish circles, especially for single boys and girls. Many feel they need to excuse themselves about why they have a smartphone and to have one purely for entertainment or minor convenience is much less common. The impression I am getting from this thread is that it is not the same in Lubavitch circles and that smartphones are more common even compared to groups that have no fear of being thrown out of anywhere.

"Socially acceptable" is a tricky term. It's not just about kicking kids out of school, it's about attitudes toward others. Is a couple holding hands in public "socially acceptable"? I'd wager if you surveyed the Lubavitchers on this forum half would give you a visceral "heck no" kind of reaction, and the other half would say yes. Those saying yes aren't saying that it is Chabad custom or condoning the behavior. They're just saying it's done by some people and/or if it is done, people aren't going to shun, ignore, or chastise them for it.

 
even compared to groups that have no fear of being thrown out of anywhere.

Source? Plenty of yeshivish communities have the same or more smartphone use as Lubavitch communities.

Online EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 3611
  • Total likes: 4236
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Ask a Lubavitcher Anything
« Reply #2399 on: February 27, 2023, 03:13:16 PM »
Are filters for adults as common in Lubavitch? Is there a TAG office or equivalent service in CH?