Ask a Lubavitcher Anything

[Yehuda57]

See above. Doesn’t the Rebbe talk about שלימת הארץ? It’s always from a security standpoint?

The Rebbe spoke a ton about that, though while not *always*, security is one of the main driving points. The pragmatic approach to EY even as a state is not in any way a change of Chabad's views towards Zionism.

I think most religious Jews are Zionistic at this point, even if they won’t admit it.

I don't think there is a standard definition of Zionism anymore. Everyone means something else when they use the word. In some ways, Chabad may be the most strident Zionists around today, while most Lubavitchers would recoil at being called Zionists.

[gozalim]

Because the Rebbe's view on פיקוח נפש ran counter to Satmar view on that topic, satmar labels it zionist

In reality it traces back to the same ability/inability to separate פיקוח נפש from the kefira shitos.

[ExGingi]

No, he says religious Zionism is Kefira? Why?

Read it and then continue the discussion. It's not that long and available online (and original print even available on free version of אוצר החכמה online.

I’d imagine that underpinnings of Geulah shaped this view. Hard to imagine that’s it’s pure coincidence that the more fiery anti Zionists felt exactly the opposite.

I think most religious Jews are Zionistic at this point, even if they won’t admit it.

Excuse my language, but are you out of your mind?

Zionism is the opposite of Geulah! It is a great העלם והסתר on אלקות. The greatest חושך is when חושך is called/disguised as אור!

The difference between Lubavitch and Satmar vis-a-vis opposition to Zionism, is that Lubavitch outright rejects the ideology, but deals with reality for what it is. While Satmar espouses ideology that translates into sometimes ridiculous teachings (to kids) and tends to ignore practical reality (which results in a less ideological opposition).

[Yehuda57]

most Lubavitchers would recoil 

Excuse my language, but are you out of your mind?

Sorry, I should have added, "to put it mildly"

[EliJelly]

What about Lubavitcher Rebbe's saying on Zalman Shazar when he became president of Israel כיון שעלה לגדולה מוחלין לו כל עוונותיו?

[AsherO]

You are describing secular Zionism. What about religious Zionism?
The Rebbes view about not giving up land seem Zionistic.

I don’t think there’s any Chabad sources from the Rabbeim supporting any form of religious Zionism as an ideology. Would be surprised to be proven wrong.

The closest I could remember to a Lubavitch source ״supporting Zionism״ is the Rebbe Maharash is said to have told the leaders of the Bilu movement that if they added באור השם to the name of their group he would support them (maybe he said he would join them?), I don’t know the source for this story.

[AsherO]

What about Lubavitcher Rebbe's saying on Zalman Shazar when he became president of Israel כיון שעלה לגדולה מוחלין לו כל עוונותיו?

That wasn’t a formal position on Zionism. I don’t think Lubavitch formally denies Israel’s existence, the quote you’re referencing only acknowledges Shazar’s appointment, not necessarily approving of the State.

[AsherO]

See above. Doesn’t the Rebbe talk about שלימת הארץ? It’s always from a security standpoint?

Even if שלימות הארץ means more than security, it has nothing to do with the State of Israel. The Rebbe virtually always called it ארץ ישראל and it’s clear that he only saw that as the land’s virtue, not the מדינה.

[ExGingi]

What about Lubavitcher Rebbe's saying on Zalman Shazar when he became president of Israel כיון שעלה לגדולה מוחלין לו כל עוונותיו?

Thank you for showing an example of what is meant with the difference between Lubavitch and Satmar in opposition to Zionism.

See https://din.org.il/2020/11/20/מחילת-עוונות-של-חתן/

What does saying that about Shazar have anything to do with opposition to Zionism?

Unfortunately, Satmar sticks way too much to symbolism over substance in its opposition (I am not saying ח"ו that there is no substance). While Lubavitch deeply and ideologically rejects Zionism (and especially so-called religious Zionism that calls it אתחלתא דגאולה, עפ"ל).

Have you ever seen the Rebbe's famous letter to President Ben-Tzvi, where the Rebbe explains why he won't use the title נשיא towards him?

[ExGingi]

All of the above not withstanding, Lubavitch doesn't flaunt its opposition to Zionism, as it is pointless, and unfortunately could create a barrier when trying to talk to Zionists in order to get them to be מקיים מצוות מעשיות and/or to learn Chassidus.

That is also a reason why the Rebbe (and previous Rebbes) didn't approve of joining any political party in the name of Chabad-Lubavitch. And with one historical exception didn't approve of public endorsement of any political party.

[EliJelly]

Thank you for showing an example of what is meant with the difference between Lubavitch and Satmar in opposition to Zionism.

See https://din.org.il/2020/11/20/מחילת-עוונות-של-חתן/

What does saying that about Shazar have anything to do with opposition to Zionism?

Unfortunately, Satmar sticks way too much to symbolism over substance in its opposition (I am not saying ח"ו that there is no substance). While Lubavitch deeply and ideologically rejects Zionism (and especially so-called religious Zionism that calls it אתחלתא דגאולה, עפ"ל).

I explained that but if my posts are getting deleted than there's no point in continuing this further.

[ExGingi]

I explained that but if my posts are getting deleted than there's no point in continuing this further.

PM is open.

[imayid2]

Be sure to cc me

[ExGingi]

Be sure to cc me

You're ineligible until you report back that you have read יהדות התורה והמדינה. 

[ExGingi]

I explained that but if my posts are getting deleted than there's no point in continuing this further.

Can't question the Pravda editorial board actions.

[EliJelly]

Can't question the Pravda editorial board actions.

Gotta stand up for JJ here as I was pm'd explaining that he wasn't clear with his posts so he deleted the back and forth but was with no intention to censor. 

[Yehuda57]

but was with no intention to censor..... anyone else but himself 

[Just A Jew]

It's good to be the king!

[imayid2]

What about Lubavitcher Rebbe's saying on Zalman Shazar when he became president of Israel כיון שעלה לגדולה מוחלין לו כל עוונותיו?

Was probably tongue in cheek. People take these stuff too seriously imho.

[AsherO]

I explained that but if my posts are getting deleted than there's no point in continuing this further.

Time to rename the topic?