Author Topic: Bidenís Border Crisis  (Read 9333 times)

Offline as2

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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #140 on: November 05, 2021, 10:47:48 AM »
Fair question and I don't have all the answers.
House them together? Release them and hope they appear for their court date?
I believe the latter is being done, although I don't know what percentage of the time. Based on the number of detainees vs crossings, I'd say majority.
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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #141 on: November 05, 2021, 10:51:36 AM »
I understand your point, and don't disagree. May I suggest 2 more productive ways of proceeding next time? 1. Give the answer, and fight the following argument. OR 2. Speak out this above point prior to dodging the question (for good reason, I'll give you that) 5 times, as it will make it look a hell of a lot less like you're backed into a corner, and more like you are who you actually are ;D
It makes no sense to answer an unrelated question that we both know will start another 100 page argument. Now if you really want or wanted an answer to unrelated question and not start another 100 page argument then PM me. If I don't answer feel free to call me out.
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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #142 on: November 05, 2021, 10:54:49 AM »
It makes no sense to answer an unrelated question that we both know will start another 100 page argument. Now if you really want or wanted an answer to unrelated question and not start another 100 page argument then PM me. If I don't answer feel free to call me out.
I think many would see them the similar answers in the 2 cases as contradictory, and I think it's a productive argument to have. Not answering the question because you don't believe in the argument that will follow is simply shutting down a discussion. Dialogue helps us see each others viewpoints, especially when we disagree. I've learned many a thing from individuals who I didn't agree with, and I value that greatly.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #143 on: November 05, 2021, 10:55:43 AM »
I believe the latter is being done, although I don't know what percentage of the time. Based on the number of detainees vs crossings, I'd say majority.
The lawsuits are about when the children were all separated. We all remember ZERO tolerance, correct?
So we are at the point of should the justice department settle with them or let the lawsuits play out.
If you agree that they should have not been separated then what is the remedy?
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #144 on: November 05, 2021, 10:58:21 AM »
I think many would see them the similar answers in the 2 cases as contradictory, and I think it's a productive argument to have. Not answering the question because you don't believe in the argument that will follow is simply shutting down a discussion. Dialogue helps us see each others viewpoints, especially when we disagree. I've learned many a thing from individuals who I didn't agree with, and I value that greatly.
We both agree it is unrelated to this discussion so why muddy this discussion?
I accuse members of not answering questions related to the discussion.
This is a new standard you are putting on me. I feel special.  :)
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #145 on: November 05, 2021, 11:00:32 AM »
Fair question and I don't have all the answers.
House them together? Release them and hope they appear for their court date?
Housing them together is not always feasible. I am assuming that when it was they did so. I can definitely hear the argument that they shouldn't be released over that. Doing so will only encourage parents to bring their children on that grueling and dangerous trip. Once the only other choice is to release them then it becomes similar to a case where the parent is being detained until trial and there is no other family. Obviously, a judge would take that into consideration at a detention hearing.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #146 on: November 05, 2021, 11:02:31 AM »
So as a single dad, or as a couple who commit tax fraud, where are my kids going?
Not to DCFS, prison or a camp 99.9% of the time.
They will stay at home with older children, live with your parents, a relative or many other alternatives.

Are we all happy now?  :)
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #147 on: November 05, 2021, 11:02:34 AM »
The lawsuits are about when the children were all separated.
My recollection is that this was never the case and was an invention of AOC but I am not certain about that.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline as2

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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #148 on: November 05, 2021, 11:02:51 AM »
The lawsuits are about when the children were all separated. We all remember ZERO tolerance, correct?
So we are at the point of should the justice department settle with them or let the lawsuits play out.
If you agree that they should have not been separated then what is the remedy?
You may notice I rarely participate in political talks here, and it's because I often don't know the answers, or don't believe it will help for me to argue. I can't comment on if they should or shouldn't be separated, because I don't know the circumstances. I do know people come here illegally, and I do know that people should not be seperated, but I also know that there are cases (not at the border) where people are separated and in many of those cases, while unfortunate, it is warranted. This is precisely why I wanted you to answer my previous question, because I want to learn from you, what you believe differentiates them. I'm open to learning and listening, even respectfully disagreeing, but if we cannot have dialogue, neither of us can. If you were Border patrol and children were coming in with parents illegally, how do you handle that? Should them being together be forfeited due to them breaking the law? At what point is it the only/best option? Is it ever? I have no answers, but I like to hear what others think.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #149 on: November 05, 2021, 11:03:38 AM »
We both agree it is unrelated to this discussion so why muddy this discussion?
I accuse members of not answering questions related to the discussion.
This is a new standard you are putting on me. I feel special.  :)
You are special. I expect more from you than many others here ;)
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline as2

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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #150 on: November 05, 2021, 11:05:16 AM »
Not to DCFS, prison or a camp 99.9% of the time.
They will stay at home with older children, live with your parents, a relative or many other alternatives.

Are we all happy now?  :)
Happy, always ;D  Let's say none of those relatives exist, are qualified/interested?
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #151 on: November 05, 2021, 11:09:34 AM »
You may notice I rarely participate in political talks here, and it's because I often don't know the answers, or don't believe it will help for me to argue. I can't comment on if they should or shouldn't be separated, because I don't know the circumstances. I do know people come here illegally, and I do know that people should not be seperated, but I also know that there are cases (not at the border) where people are separated and in many of those cases, while unfortunate, it is warranted. This is precisely why I wanted you to answer my previous question, because I want to learn from you, what you believe differentiates them. I'm open to learning and listening, even respectfully disagreeing, but if we cannot have dialogue, neither of us can. If you were Border patrol and children were coming in with parents illegally, how do you handle that? Should them being together be forfeited due to them breaking the law? At what point is it the only/best option? Is it ever? I have no answers, but I like to hear what others think.
How about a simple question.  :)
Are you saying you didn't have a good idea (99%) what my answer would be?

Do you think when I ask "would you do everything you can for your kids" I don't know the answer?
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #152 on: November 05, 2021, 11:10:53 AM »
Happy, always ;D  Let's say none of those relatives exist, are qualified/interested?
It never ends.  :P
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #153 on: November 05, 2021, 11:15:12 AM »
How about a simple question.  :)
Are you saying you didn't have a good idea (99%) what my answer would be?

Do you think when I ask "would you do everything you can for your kids" I don't know the answer?
I did, but I didn't want to "gotcha" I wanted to have a real discussion. I wanted to talk about it and hear what you have to say, and share what I have to say. Again dialouge is always helpful. I'm open to hearing why these cases are extremely different. I know very little about it, and see similarities that seem contradictory, and would love to hear more to the contrary. Not everyone here is out to spew their agenda (ok most are), some actually want to listen
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline as2

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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #154 on: November 05, 2021, 11:16:18 AM »
It never ends.  :P
I apologize for not specifying this previously, but I assumed we all knew, and that's my mistake.
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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #155 on: November 05, 2021, 11:17:51 AM »
If you'd prefer to discuss via PM I'd do so happily. I'm not trying to paint anyone as anything here.
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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #156 on: November 05, 2021, 11:21:44 AM »
I did, but I didn't want to "gotcha" I wanted to have a real discussion. I wanted to talk about it and hear what you have to say, and share what I have to say. Again dialouge is always helpful. I'm open to hearing why these cases are extremely different. I know very little about it, and see similarities that seem contradictory, and would love to hear more to the contrary. Not everyone here is out to spew their agenda (ok most are), some actually want to listen
Ok fair enough but once the haters jump in all bets are off.
The problem is they are being arrested with the children. What is the proper way to solve this since we can't really give the children to family in this situation. The best is to house them together but is that possible and safe?
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #157 on: November 05, 2021, 11:22:03 AM »
If you'd prefer to discuss via PM I'd do so happily. I'm not trying to paint anyone as anything here.
You are not the issue.  ;)
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline as2

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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #158 on: November 05, 2021, 11:24:06 AM »
Ok fair enough but once the haters jump in all bets are off.
The problem is they are being arrested with the children. What is the proper way to solve this since we can't really give the children to family in this situation. The best is to house them together but is that possible and safe?
You're questions here are exactly mine. It's a mess we both agree on, and are both not qualified to fix. We can either set them free to eliminate the housing crises, or not let them in to begin with, bith of which have serious repercussions. We're just adding another layer of questions to a nasty situation. Regardless it's sad.
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Re: Bidenís Border Crisis
« Reply #159 on: November 05, 2021, 11:26:57 AM »
Now we get to the point of were we are now that started all this. Should they have separated them to begin with? If no should the families be compensated?
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch