Poll

Do you contribute to retirement funds?

No
 Contribute <15% of take home pay
Contribute >15% of take home pay
Max out all retirement funds

Author Topic: Retirement Funds  (Read 65968 times)

Online Kobe Bryant

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Posts: 3980
  • Total likes: 2288
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
Retirement Funds
« on: March 31, 2021, 11:09:44 PM »
A thread to discuss retirement funds and tax advantaged accounts.

Offline elazarmn

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2016
  • Posts: 787
  • Total likes: 107
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: kings County
Re: Retirement Funds
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2021, 11:10:52 PM »
Awesome!

Im a big 401(k) er.

Have some municipal bonds


Online Kobe Bryant

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Posts: 3980
  • Total likes: 2288
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
Re: Retirement Funds
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2021, 11:15:20 PM »
Awesome!

Im a big 401(k) er.

Have some municipal bonds
Bonds don’t have such great returns. Are you diversified?

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18377
  • Total likes: 14568
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Retirement Funds
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2021, 11:20:23 PM »
Awesome!

Im a big 401(k) er.

Have some municipal bonds


Why would you own municipal bonds in a tax advantaged account? They sell for a premium because the interest is tax free and you don't realize that benefit in a tax advantaged account. You would be much better off with taxable bonds.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Der Deutsche Jude

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jan 2016
  • Posts: 941
  • Total likes: 46
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
  • Programs: AA, CA, FAA, GA, NA, OA, WA
Re: Retirement Funds
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2021, 01:34:45 AM »
Is there an actual good resource out there for helping to decide between traditional and Roth? Perhaps some sort of program that actually encompasses all factors?

People make it seem like it boils down to which tax bracket you think you'll be in when you retire vs where you are now. But it's way more involved than that. For example, if you defer Roth, the entire contribution might be taxed at the highest bracket you're in, but if you were to instead have it taxed when you withdraw during retirement, the first portion of it is taxed at the lowest bracket. But there's consideration for Social Security income or Real Estate. Also, another thing that is not often discussed is that if you defer the max, then Roth provides a higher effective max contribution as it's post tax.

Obviously there's a ton of unpredictability such as how your income will grow, tax reforms, where you'll live...  For the time being, I think a good approach for myself is to utilize both as it is a way of diversifying as I don't know enough to choose one over the other.

Online Kobe Bryant

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Posts: 3980
  • Total likes: 2288
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
Re: Retirement Funds
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2021, 09:04:56 AM »
Is there an actual good resource out there for helping to decide between traditional and Roth? Perhaps some sort of program that actually encompasses all factors?

People make it seem like it boils down to which tax bracket you think you'll be in when you retire vs where you are now. But it's way more involved than that. For example, if you defer Roth, the entire contribution might be taxed at the highest bracket you're in, but if you were to instead have it taxed when you withdraw during retirement, the first portion of it is taxed at the lowest bracket. But there's consideration for Social Security income or Real Estate. Also, another thing that is not often discussed is that if you defer the max, then Roth provides a higher effective max contribution as it's post tax.

Obviously there's a ton of unpredictability such as how your income will grow, tax reforms, where you'll live...  For the time being, I think a good approach for myself is to utilize both as it is a way of diversifying as I don't know enough to choose one over the other.
The simple metric I use, is if one is under <25% ETR then I would definitely suggest RIRA and over >30% ETR go with TIRA.

Online Mordyk

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 4136
  • Total likes: 1028
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: Some of this and some of that.
Re: Retirement Funds
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2021, 09:24:42 AM »
For a self employed individual that maxes out annually the RIRA, what's the next step to be able to contribute more?
#TYH

Online Kobe Bryant

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Posts: 3980
  • Total likes: 2288
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
Re: Retirement Funds
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2021, 09:54:35 AM »
For a self employed individual that maxes out annually the RIRA, what's the next step to be able to contribute more?
Self-employed 401(K) plan.

Offline Fish Tank

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 878
  • Total likes: 155
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Retirement Funds
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2021, 12:23:04 PM »
Self-employed 401(K) plan.
Isn't that costly?

Offline Fish Tank

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 878
  • Total likes: 155
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Retirement Funds
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2021, 12:23:23 PM »
For a self employed individual that maxes out annually the RIRA, what's the next step to be able to contribute more?
Backdoor RIRA?


Offline farmbochur

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2011
  • Posts: 1808
  • Total likes: 237
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
Re: Retirement Funds
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2021, 02:24:17 PM »
For a self employed individual that maxes out annually the RIRA, what's the next step to be able to contribute more?
HSA if you have a HDHP. I'd argue that HSA should be prioritized over Roth IRA.

My priorities are:

1. Roth 401k to max out employer match
2. HSA to the IRS max
3. Roth IRA to the IRS max
4. Roth 401k to the IRS max
5. Prepay mortgage
6. After-tax, non-Roth 401k for mega backdoor Roth IRA
7. Taxable accounts
Risk is opportunity

Offline ShimshonK

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2018
  • Posts: 551
  • Total likes: 148
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Retirement Funds
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2021, 02:44:36 PM »
Isn't that costly?
Nope. I have one with Vanguard.

SEP IRA is another option as well (a bit simpler, but contribution limits will be lower than the self-employed/solo 401k).
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 02:48:39 PM by ShimshonK »

Offline ShimshonK

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2018
  • Posts: 551
  • Total likes: 148
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Retirement Funds
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2021, 02:50:56 PM »
The simple metric I use, is if one is under <25% ETR then I would definitely suggest RIRA and over >30% ETR go with TIRA.
Why do you use a metric based on your effective tax rate, as opposed to your top tax bracket?
The amount you'd save is from your top tax bracket.

Online Kobe Bryant

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Posts: 3980
  • Total likes: 2288
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
Re: Retirement Funds
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2021, 03:21:02 PM »
HSA if you have a HDHP. I'd argue that HSA should be prioritized over Roth IRA.
Earlier I was actually writing a post about HSA, when I got distracted.
IMO an HSA is the most underrated RF in the world. Although technically not a RF, it acts in the same manner and is the only one that is triple tax advantaged. The only requirement for eligibility is to have  a HDHP. Contribution limits for 2020 $3550 for single and $7100 for a family, in 2021 $3600 for single and $7200 for a family. One can contribute until tax filing deadline.

Online Kobe Bryant

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Posts: 3980
  • Total likes: 2288
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
Re: Retirement Funds
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2021, 03:26:46 PM »
Nope. I have one with Vanguard.

SEP IRA is another option as well (a bit simpler, but contribution limits will be lower than the self-employed/solo 401k).
IRA contributions are capped at $6K <50 YO and an additional $1k for individuals >50 YO across all IRA’s.

Offline ShimshonK

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2018
  • Posts: 551
  • Total likes: 148
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Retirement Funds
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2021, 03:55:30 PM »
IRA contributions are capped at $6K <50 YO and an additional $1k for individuals >50 YO across all IRA’s.
SEP IRA is a business plan, and it is not capped at $6k.
https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/retirement-plans-faqs-regarding-seps-contributions

Offline ushdadude

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Apr 2013
  • Posts: 6379
  • Total likes: 974
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
  • Location: NY
Re: Retirement Funds
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2021, 04:15:52 PM »
SEP IRA is a business plan, and it is not capped at $6k.
https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/retirement-plans-faqs-regarding-seps-contributions


But you need actual payroll and not just distributions

Online Kobe Bryant

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Posts: 3980
  • Total likes: 2288
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
Re: Retirement Funds
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2021, 04:22:47 PM »
SEP IRA is a business plan, and it is not capped at $6k.
https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/retirement-plans-faqs-regarding-seps-contributions
Good point. I was referring to contributions made as a non-employer. The same applies to 401(k) with employee contributions capped at $19.5K but with employer contributions maximum limit of $58K.

Online Kobe Bryant

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Posts: 3980
  • Total likes: 2288
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
Re: Retirement Funds
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2021, 04:26:31 PM »
Why do you use a metric based on your effective tax rate, as opposed to your top tax bracket?
The amount you'd save is from your top tax bracket.
There are many variables to calculate, such as FICA. local, state and federal. ETR is the truest measure.