Author Topic: Tish package  (Read 2318 times)

Online yungermanchik

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Re: Tish package
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2021, 12:20:42 AM »
Which is why I also brought English sources.

It is based on how said person views his actual assets.

Though for a Yid, the definition might be totally different, as I recently posted, but that isn't the current discussion.
I was just nitpicking on the posts that I quoted because this idea, that translations are not exact, is a concept that the Rov of the shul that I went to as a kid, mentioned many times. 
Small people talk about other people.
Average people talk about things
BIG PEOPLE TALK ABOUT IDEAS.

Online EliJelly

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Re: Tish package
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2021, 12:41:21 AM »
איזהו עשיר השמח בחלקו

Mental state indeed.
And in the gemara there are several shitos on when a person is satisfied enough to be called an עשיר.

תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן: אֵיזֶהוּ עָשִׁיר? — כׇּל שֶׁיֵּשׁ לוֹ נַחַת רוּחַ בְּעׇשְׁרוֹ, דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי מֵאִיר. סִימָן מטק״ס. רַבִּי טַרְפוֹן אוֹמֵר: כׇּל שֶׁיֵּשׁ לוֹ מֵאָה כְּרָמִים וּמֵאָה שָׂדוֹת וּמֵאָה עֲבָדִים שֶׁעוֹבְדִין בָּהֶן. רַבִּי עֲקִיבָא אוֹמֵר: כֹּל שֶׁיֵּשׁ לוֹ אִשָּׁה נָאָה בְּמַעֲשִׂים. רַבִּי יוֹסֵי אוֹמֵר: כֹּל שֶׁיֵּשׁ לוֹ בֵּית הַכִּסֵּא סָמוּךְ לְשׁוּלְחָנוֹ.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Tish package
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2021, 09:15:07 AM »
Which is why I also brought English sources.
No, you didn't

People might think of rich in a different way, but;
 ;D
So are we also going to redefine the words 'strong' 'smart' 'respected' too?

The Misna in Avos doesn't mean that's the actual definition of the word עשיר - somebody who is satisfied in his lot can still be halachically an עני which is the opposite of עשיר (Karabons, Tzedka, shiur of cloth). There are are also mefarshim like Rabbenu Yonah that say the Mishna is only qualifying a subset of עשירים who can be proud of their wealth, but the word עשיר would apply equally to anybody who has money, regardless of how they feel about it. 

The countless psukim in Tanach who discuss עשירות clearly refer simply to somebody with abundant possessions, a few examples"

הֶֽעָשִׁ֣יר לֹֽא־יַרְבֶּ֗ה וְהַדַּל֙ לֹ֣א יַמְעִ֔יט מִֽמַּחֲצִ֖ית הַשָּׁ֑קֶל לָתֵת֙ אֶת־תְּרוּמַ֣ת ה׳ לְכַפֵּ֖ר עַל־נַפְשֹׁתֵיכֶֽם׃

וַיֹּ֗אמֶר בְּרוּכָ֨ה אַ֤תְּ לַֽה׳ בִּתִּ֔י הֵיטַ֛בְתְּ חַסְדֵּ֥ךְ הָאַחֲרֹ֖ון מִן־הָרִאשֹׁ֑ון לְבִלְתִּי־לֶ֗כֶת אַחֲרֵי֙ הַבַּ֣חוּרִ֔ים אִם־דַּ֖ל וְאִם־עָשִֽׁיר׃

כֹּ֣ה ׀ אָמַ֣ר ה׳ אַל־יִתְהַלֵּ֤ל חָכָם֙ בְּחָכְמָת֔וֹ וְאַל־יִתְהַלֵּ֥ל הַגִּבּ֖וֹר בִּגְבֽוּרָת֑וֹ אַל־יִתְהַלֵּ֥ל עָשִׁ֖יר בְּעָשְׁרֽוֹ׃

מְתוּקָה֙ שְׁנַ֣ת הָעֹבֵ֔ד אִם־מְעַ֥ט וְאִם־הַרְבֵּ֖ה יֹאכֵ֑ל וְהַשָּׂבָע֙ לֶֽעָשִׁ֔יר אֵינֶ֛נּוּ מַנִּ֥יחַֽ לֹ֖ו לִישֹֽׁון׃

כֹּ֣פֶר נֶֽפֶשׁ־אִ֣ישׁ עָשְׁר֑וֹ וְ֝רָ֗שׁ לֹא־שָׁמַ֥ע גְּעָרָֽה׃

גַּם־לְ֭רֵעֵהוּ יִשָּׂ֣נֵא רָ֑שׁ וְאֹהֲבֵ֖י עָשִׁ֣יר רַבִּֽים׃

ה֣וֹן עָ֭שִׁיר קִרְיַ֣ת עֻזּ֑וֹ וּכְחוֹמָ֥ה נִ֝שְׂגָּבָ֗ה בְּמַשְׂכִּיתֽוֹ׃

עָ֭שִׁיר בְּרָשִׁ֣ים יִמְשׁ֑וֹל וְעֶ֥בֶד לֹ֝וֶ֗ה לְאִ֣ישׁ מַלְוֶֽה׃

אַל־תִּ֭ירָא כִּֽי־יַעֲשִׁ֣ר אִ֑ישׁ כִּֽי־יִ֝רְבֶּה כְּב֣וֹד בֵּיתֽוֹ׃

לֹֽא־יֶ֭עְשַׁר וְלֹא־יָק֣וּם חֵיל֑וֹ וְלֹֽא־יִטֶּ֖ה לָאָ֣רֶץ מִנְלָֽם׃

כֹּ֥ה אָמַ֖ר ה׳ אלוקי רְעֵ֖ה אֶת־צֹ֥אן הַהֲרֵגָֽה׃ האֲשֶׁ֨ר קֹנֵיהֶ֤ן יַֽהֲרְגֻן֙ וְלֹ֣א יֶאְשָׁ֔מוּ וּמֹכְרֵיהֶ֣ן יֹאמַ֔ר בָּר֥וּךְ ה׳ וַאעְשִׁ֑ר וְרֹ֣עֵיהֶ֔ם לֹ֥א יַחְמ֖וֹל עֲלֵיהֶֽן׃

רָ֗אשׁ עֹשֶׂ֥ה כַף־רְמִיָּ֑ה וְיַ֖ד חָרוּצִ֣ים תַּעֲשִֽׁיר׃

כִּי־נִמְצְא֥וּ בְעַמִּ֖י רְשָׁעִ֑ים יָשׁוּר֙ כְּשַׁ֣ךְ יְקוּשִׁ֔ים הִצִּ֥יבוּ מַשְׁחִ֖ית אֲנָשִׁ֥ים יִלְכֹּֽדוּ׃ ככְלוּב֙ מָ֣לֵא ע֔וֹף כֵּ֥ן בָּתֵּיהֶ֖ם מְלֵאִ֣ים מִרְמָ֑ה עַל־כֵּ֥ן גָּדְל֖וּ וַֽיַּעֲשִֽׁירוּ׃

וַיֹּ֣אמֶר ׀ אִ֣ישׁ יִשְׂרָאֵ֗ל הַרְּאִיתֶם֙ הָאִ֤ישׁ הָֽעֹלֶה֙ הַזֶּ֔ה כִּ֛י לְחָרֵ֥ף אֶת־יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל עֹלֶ֑ה וְֽ֠הָיָה הָאִ֨ישׁ אֲשֶׁר־יַכֶּ֜נּוּ יַעְשְׁרֶ֥נּוּ הַמֶּ֣לֶךְ ׀ עֹ֣שֶׁר גָּד֗וֹל וְאֶת־בִּתּוֹ֙ יִתֶּן־ל֔וֹ וְאֵת֙ בֵּ֣ית אָבִ֔יו יַעֲשֶׂ֥ה חָפְשִׁ֖י בְּיִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃

« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 09:53:57 AM by PlatinumGuy »
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Lurker

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Re: Tish package
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2021, 09:28:09 AM »
So are we also going to redefine the words 'strong' 'smart' 'respected' too?

Yep. See "Harris, Kamala" for reference.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Tish package
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2021, 09:30:57 AM »
No, you didn't

One source mentioned here:
If said person "needs" something, what makes that person rich?

Take a few moments to read, if not actually learn, the maamar linked above.

Also see Richard Russell's famous piece "Rich Man Poor Man".
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Tish package
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2021, 09:39:32 AM »
One source mentioned here:
Words are defined in a dictionary, not philosophy books.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים