Author Topic: A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?  (Read 15442 times)

Offline Yo ssi

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A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?
« on: April 15, 2021, 10:14:24 PM »
If you had a smart plug that knew (reliably without needing internet access) all the Zmanim and which days are Shabbos and Yom Tov, what would you use it for?


An example:
Have it set to automatically shut off a smart doorbell (or Google home, Amazon Alexa etc.), whenever it's Shabbos or Yom Tov.
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Offline mileagejunkie

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Re: A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2021, 10:30:31 PM »
If you had a smart plug that knew (reliably without needing internet access) all the Zmanim and which days are Shabbos and Yom Tov, what would you use it for?


An example:
Have it set to automatically shut off a smart doorbell (or Google home, Amazon Alexa etc.), whenever it's Shabbos or Yom Tov.
Your example is for a device already connected to the internet though... You can set a specific google calendarís events that match a search as a trigger for example. Iím a big fan of Alexa routines but it Yom Tov days need to be added manually.

Offline Yo ssi

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Re: A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2021, 10:46:22 PM »
Your example is for a device already connected to the internet though... You can set a specific google calendarís events that match a search as a trigger for example. Iím a big fan of Alexa routines but it Yom Tov days need to be added manually.
I'm not sure what you mean. The thing being plugged in to the smart plug, having WiFi capabilities is unrated to a smart plug that can have Zmanim on board. You can't turn off a ring doorbell or a Google home mini with a Google calendar event..

The issue with your solution in addition to as you mentioned the Yom Tov problem, is if your internet shuts down, then what happens?

The possibilities are endless, if you can make schedules that differ on Shabbos / Yom Tov, or even if you wanted to disable the button on the plug from working on Shabbos, say you can do it all, what practical use can you think of?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 11:05:52 PM by Yo ssi »
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Offline mileagejunkie

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Re: A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2021, 08:06:10 AM »
I'm not sure what you mean. The thing being plugged in to the smart plug, having WiFi capabilities is unrated to a smart plug that can have Zmanim on board. You can't turn off a ring doorbell or a Google home mini with a Google calendar event..

The issue with your solution in addition to as you mentioned the Yom Tov problem, is if your internet shuts down, then what happens?

The possibilities are endless, if you can make schedules that differ on Shabbos / Yom Tov, or even if you wanted to disable the button on the plug from working on Shabbos, say you can do it all, what practical use can you think of?
My point was that you could trigger a wemo switch for example based on calendar events via IFTTT.
That being said, you could use that for any device that needs to perform a single action before/after shabbos. IF you have reliable routers and the internet happens to go down on the providerís end at that specific time (pretty slim chances Iíd think), then you can go press the button manually the one time every two years that it doesnít work a half hour before shabbos.
Now that leaves us with devices that need to be turned on and off throughout shabbos - canít think of any - and Yom Tov - maybe a hot plate.
Iíll take my specific case. I have everything connected and on schedule: lock, security, lights (including side lamps with shabulbs, videoconference lighting - that one voice controlled), thermostat, curtains and various sensors. What kind of device on a plug would I need to go on and off throughout shabbos?

Online AsherO

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Re: A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2021, 08:20:24 AM »
I'm not sure what you mean. The thing being plugged in to the smart plug, having WiFi capabilities is unrated to a smart plug that can have Zmanim on board. You can't turn off a ring doorbell or a Google home mini with a Google calendar event..

The issue with your solution in addition to as you mentioned the Yom Tov problem, is if your internet shuts down, then what happens?

The possibilities are endless, if you can make schedules that differ on Shabbos / Yom Tov, or even if you wanted to disable the button on the plug from working on Shabbos, say you can do it all, what practical use can you think of?

What about light switches that are unresponsive on Shabbos and YomTov?

Not sure it really makes a difference if thereís a microcomputer that evaluates whether itís Shabbos and YomTov and decides to ignore the flipped switch, but maybe if it was an independent component that cut the circuit then flipping an old-school light switch on an already broken circuit wouldnít be doing anything.

Kinda like a high-tech overengineered light-switch cover.
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Offline Yo ssi

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Re: A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2021, 11:08:54 AM »
@mileagejunkie
Say one has a sensor out front that automatically turns on a light, and the motion sensor can be turned on or off with a switch, I personally wouldn't rely on anything cloud based, and while I understand some might be, I think you can understand there's a place for something more reliable then that.

Now regarding your question, say you had a lamp on a plug, or really any smart switch / relay is identical to a plug, and instead of every Shabbos and Yom tov having to schedule your lights for the meal you can set it up that every Yom tov the lights stay on at night and for the meal during the day, or specifically on the first night of pesach I want it on till 2am etc..


What about light switches that are unresponsive on Shabbos and YomTov?
Definitely that can be easily implemented on a plug or light switch (considering you have the correct one..)

It would have to be thought out, on a smart plug I would make it the button doesn't do anything, while on a light you may want to override it by say clicking it 3x rapidly, since it's not like a plug which can be removed from the wall easily.
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Offline mileagejunkie

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Re: A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2021, 04:59:06 PM »
@mileagejunkie
Say one has a sensor out front that automatically turns on a light, and the motion sensor can be turned on or off with a switch, I personally wouldn't rely on anything cloud based, and while I understand some might be, I think you can understand there's a place for something more reliable then that.

Now regarding your question, say you had a lamp on a plug, or really any smart switch / relay is identical to a plug, and instead of every Shabbos and Yom tov having to schedule your lights for the meal you can set it up that every Yom tov the lights stay on at night and for the meal during the day, or specifically on the first night of pesach I want it on till 2am etc..

Definitely that can be easily implemented on a plug or light switch (considering you have the correct one..)

It would have to be thought out, on a smart plug I would make it the button doesn't do anything, while on a light you may want to override it by say clicking it 3x rapidly, since it's not like a plug which can be removed from the wall easily.
As you put it, the applications are very few, and even fewer for items that go on and off throughout Shabbos (pretty much plug-in lamps), anything that works on batteries (like sensors) won't be a candidate.
What's wrong with relying on the cloud if the action is performed once before and once after Shabbos? How many of these plugs would people have to unplug already if and when it fails?
Once you have to set specific times for Yom Tov, how different is it from a 7-day timer?

Offline Yo ssi

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Re: A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2021, 05:57:50 PM »
As you put it, the applications are very few, and even fewer for items that go on and off throughout Shabbos (pretty much plug-in lamps), anything that works on batteries (like sensors) won't be a candidate.
Here's a list of things where I think it can be useful, I was looking to get more ideas that was the original question :)
  • For those who are careful to cut power on a smart doorbell (like @Dan I believe) it would automatically turn off your doorbell for Shabbos and Yom Tov.
  • Things like hot plates which I always want to have on from the beginning of Shabbos till say 1pm, and on Yom Tov from 11am-1pm, plug in that switch and I know it will work for those preset times.
  • Plugs for lamps / light switches, have an individual schedule for Shabbos and Yom Tov, when I usually want to keep the light on for the meals or reading etc.. (ever happened to you that you forgot to set the schedule and ate in the dark? (Enjoyable sometimes I know 😉)).
  • Disable the button for light switches.

What's wrong with relying on the cloud if the action is performed once before and once after Shabbos? How many of these plugs would people have to unplug already if and when it fails?
Having to go around to check if all my "smart" sensors are disabled for Shabbos is less then ideal in my opinion, and not to mention it won't help for Yom Tov, and what happens if the "cloud" decides to cancel their service or start charging? (ahem..IFTTT).
In addition having your hotplate not work because the internet is down, isn't fun. A rare scenario perhaps, but it happens.

Once you have to set specific times for Yom Tov, how different is it from a 7-day timer?
That means every Yom Tov you have to make a specific 7 day timer which you then have to remember to turn off, or lights will be going on randomly.. it works, just not ideal IMHO.


In addition to all of the above for those into heavy automation, full Home Assistant support with direct API (or mqtt).
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Offline bubbles

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Re: A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2021, 06:17:40 PM »
What about light switches that are unresponsive on Shabbos and YomTov?

Not sure it really makes a difference if thereís a microcomputer that evaluates whether itís Shabbos and YomTov and decides to ignore the flipped switch, but maybe if it was an independent component that cut the circuit then flipping an old-school light switch on an already broken circuit wouldnít be doing anything.

Kinda like a high-tech overengineered light-switch cover.
I have that set up on smart things. When mode is shabbos/yt then there is a trigger set up that when the switch turns on it turns it right back off. Though this only helps for the light not being on. You still would have had the issue of having turned on the light

Offline yungermanchik

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Re: A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2021, 09:33:00 PM »
To answer the OP, to disable the dishwasher on Shabbos and Y"T.

(My cutie turned it on today, right before the seudah)
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Offline yungermanchik

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Re: A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2021, 09:36:48 PM »
What about light switches that are unresponsive on Shabbos and YomTov?

Not sure it really makes a difference if thereís a microcomputer that evaluates whether itís Shabbos and YomTov and decides to ignore the flipped switch, but maybe if it was an independent component that cut the circuit then flipping an old-school light switch on an already broken circuit wouldnít be doing anything.

Kinda like a high-tech overengineered light-switch cover.

In the meantime, until @Yo ssi's Hi-tech product comes out, I find the this works great to prevent kids from turning on their lights on shabbos:
Another great toddler product for Shabbos:

Amazon.com: Light Switch Guard, ILIVABLE Child Proof Wall Switch Plate Protects Your Lights or Circuits from being Accidentally Turned On or Off by Children and Adults (White, 2 Pack): Home Improvement ($9.99)


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Offline Yo ssi

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Re: A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2021, 09:40:51 PM »
In the meantime, until @Yo ssi's Hi-tech product comes out, I find the this works great to prevent kids from turning on their lights on shabbos:
Won't help for your dishwasher or decora switches ;)

I'm not looking to put out any product, just a small open source project I was looking to make, everyone is welcome to contribute.
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Offline yungermanchik

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« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 09:50:28 PM by yungermanchik »
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Re: A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2021, 09:48:52 PM »
Back to OP's question- To disable anything that plays music. We have a Naki Radio and a few weeks ago we had music playing from around noon until the end of shabbos because my 2 yr old turned it on.

(As an aside, we love the Naki Radio. Bought it as my 2 yr old always wants music and using our phones for music inevitably leads to him taking the phone which in turn leads to a tantrum whenever we need to take it away. The Naki radio has a simple text-only screen so nothing to get absorbed in, and we now have no reason to ever give him our phones.)

Offline whacked1

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Re: A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2021, 09:56:56 PM »
A little speaker inside with a grumpy mans voice saying "turn off the light you're using too much electricity "

Offline Yo ssi

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Re: A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2021, 09:57:53 PM »
A little speaker inside with a grumpy mans voice saying "turn off the light you're using too much electricity "
A great idea. Shabbos related how exactly?
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Offline whacked1

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Re: A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2021, 09:58:46 PM »
A great idea. Shabbos related how exactly?
"Jewishily-Smart Plug"

Offline Yo ssi

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Re: A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2021, 10:05:01 PM »
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Offline yungermanchik

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Re: A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2021, 10:11:56 PM »
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Offline bubbles

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Re: A Jewishily-Smart Plug | What Features Would You Like?
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2021, 08:54:27 AM »
I use the shabbos app on smart things which I believe uses the hebcal api to let me know when it's shabbos/yt. This changes m the mode of my hub to Shabbos/yt. I use that for a ton of things. All you're offering is the same thing just with the dates loaded into the physical device?