Poll

Guilty?

No
17 (47.2%)
Yes
19 (52.8%)

Total Members Voted: 36

Author Topic: Guilty?  (Read 8601 times)

Offline TimT

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #240 on: May 05, 2021, 12:13:38 AM »
Did he lie to any of the questions?
Thats for the judge to decide. There’s the possibility of a Schwartz Hearing.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #241 on: May 05, 2021, 12:15:57 AM »
I think there was no way to get a fair trial that was not racially biased.
Appreciate your response but you are way off base. This was a slam dunk case especially when the defense could not counter their witnesses.
Now if he was found not guilty then charge would be correct.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #242 on: May 05, 2021, 12:17:12 AM »
Thats for the judge to decide. There’s the possibility of a Schwartz Hearing.
As there should be. No one should be afraid of the truth. Unfortunately many only want the truth when it supports their side.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #243 on: May 05, 2021, 12:19:23 AM »
Appreciate your response but you are way off base. This was a slam dunk case especially when the defense could not counter their witnesses.
Now if he was found not guilty then charge would be correct.

Not sure you're understanding his point. FWIU he's saying while the verdict looked correct but the process wasn't. Which isn't a big deal for this case but it sets a bad precedent when things aren't so clear.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #244 on: May 05, 2021, 12:24:01 AM »
Not sure you're understanding his point. FWIU he's saying while the verdict looked correct but the process wasn't. Which isn't a big deal for this case but it sets a bad precedent when things aren't so clear.
What in this case was decided base on race?
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #245 on: May 05, 2021, 12:31:21 AM »
What in this case was decided base on race?

Nothing was decided based on race. However race should not be an influencing factor even if it doesn't change the ultimate decision.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #246 on: May 05, 2021, 12:35:08 AM »
Nothing was decided based on race. However race should not be an influencing factor even if it doesn't change the ultimate decision.
You are making no sense. What part of the trial was race the influencing factor?
If this was a white victim would the verdict be different?
If this was a black defendant would the verdict be different?

You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #247 on: May 05, 2021, 12:40:29 AM »
You are making no sense. What part of the trial was race the influencing factor?
If this was a white victim would the verdict be different?
If this was a black defendant would the verdict be different?

Let me explain better. If I'm a juror, I weigh the multiple factors of why I believe guilty and why I believe "not guilty". Let's assume race was one of the factors to say "guilty" - even if you removed the weight of that influencing factor, there would still be enough for the juror to say "guilty". However you shouldn't have prejudiced jurors even if they happen to get the verdict right.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #248 on: May 05, 2021, 12:43:28 AM »
Let me explain better. If I'm a juror, I weigh the multiple factors of why I believe guilty and why I believe "not guilty". Let's assume race was one of the factors to say "guilty" - even if you removed the weight of that influencing factor, there would still be enough for the juror to say "guilty". However you shouldn't have prejudiced jurors even if they happen to get the verdict right.
Are you saying some or any of the jurors were prejudiced?
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #249 on: May 05, 2021, 12:50:14 AM »
Are you saying some or any of the jurors were prejudiced?

I believe that's what @Mordyk was saying, I honestly don't know much about this case, but assuming Brandon Mitchell is biased then it's a problem to include him. Doesn't really matter how good the evidence is.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #250 on: May 05, 2021, 12:55:46 AM »
I believe that's what @Mordyk was saying, I honestly don't know much about this case, but assuming Brandon Mitchell is biased then it's a problem to include him. Doesn't really matter how good the evidence is.
Someone can be biased and deliver a decision based on the facts. Now if there is some evidence that a jurors decision was based on race and not the facts then this decision should be thrown out. You can't throw out these accusations out of thin air.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #251 on: May 05, 2021, 01:04:25 AM »
Someone can be biased and deliver a decision based on the facts. Now if there is some evidence that a jurors decision was based on race and not the facts then this decision should be thrown out. You can't throw out these accusations out of thin air.

I guess you have a different understanding of what "biased" means

bi·ased
adjective
unfairly prejudiced for or against someone or something.

ob·jec·tive
adjective
(of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

Offline Yo ssi

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #252 on: May 05, 2021, 01:07:08 AM »
Everyone is biased and can deliver a decision based on the facts.
FTFY

Although the point being made IINM is that it did effect the decision but didn't tip the scale.

Over and out.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #253 on: May 05, 2021, 01:09:12 AM »
I guess you have a different understanding of what "biased" means

bi·ased
adjective
unfairly prejudiced for or against someone or something.

ob·jec·tive
adjective
(of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
No, I know what biased means and I also know a dog whistle. This is about the decision being based on race no matter how it is worded.
I am biased against you know who but could render a verdict based on facts if I was a juror.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #254 on: May 05, 2021, 01:12:04 AM »
Although the point being made IINM is that it did effect the decision but didn't tip the scale.
Which juror did it effect their decision?
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #255 on: May 05, 2021, 01:27:06 AM »
No, I know what biased means and I also know a dog whistle. This is about the decision being based on race no matter how it is worded.
I am biased against you know who but could render a verdict based on facts if I was a juror.

It ain't a dog whistle, it's the literal definition. Trying to twist the literal definition of biased seems to point at underlying agenda...For some reason even when you are objective you won't admit it.

Bias literally means it affects your judgement. Objective means you ignore your personal feelings when considering facts. If someone is objective then the rest doesn't matter. The issue is jurors won't necessarily tell you if they're prejudiced. In court they may use evidence of strong personal feelings as a proxy for prejudice.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #256 on: May 05, 2021, 01:44:05 AM »
So this is a play on words?
If someone hates blacks or is a racist can they render an objective verdict.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #257 on: May 05, 2021, 01:51:53 AM »
So this is a play on words?
If someone hates blacks or is a racist can they render an objective verdict.

Yes they can be objective, but if they have a history of racism, it'll be hard to prove to a judge that they are in fact objective.
Also just read up on this Brandon Mitchell fellow. From his history of wearing Floyd-inspired clothing, to attending Floyd protests and lying about it, to pushing court as a venue to spark "change", he does not seem to be objective at all.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #258 on: May 05, 2021, 02:02:20 AM »
Yes they can be objective, but if they have a history of racism, it'll be hard to prove to a judge that they are in fact objective.
If they are truthful to the questions asked there will not be an issue. I will say it again. If he lied about this stuff he was involved in then the verdict should be thrown out. Then they can convict him again with a fair trial.  :)
These comments made about the jury basing there decision on race are not new. Many were made way before today.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline aygart

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Re: Guilty?
« Reply #259 on: May 05, 2021, 06:25:38 AM »
Did he lie to any of the questions? If not it is a nothing burger.
If it is because the questions were too specific our inadequate that is also grounds for appeal.
Feelings don't care about your facts