Author Topic: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary  (Read 9791 times)

Offline JlmBoi

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Re: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary
« Reply #60 on: May 27, 2021, 11:07:40 AM »
Misrepresentation and deception can be legislated for. I didn't get the impression that that was the plan for the legislation here.

As I said, everything I wrote earlier was re missionizing not deception.
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Re: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary
« Reply #61 on: May 27, 2021, 11:07:52 AM »
Because we all know Jews would not do this or that.  ::)
All humans are capable and have done worse.
it's a theological difference.
'universal' vs 'particular' religion

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Re: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary
« Reply #62 on: May 27, 2021, 11:09:37 AM »
Because we all know Jews would not do this or that.  ::)
All humans are capable and have done worse.
There is no jewish practice or positive source for the behavior of proactively seeking non jews and converting them to Judaism.
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Re: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary
« Reply #63 on: May 27, 2021, 11:15:17 AM »
Example of Judaism preying on the vulnerable?
Even if today was Friday I wouldn't bite.  ;)
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Re: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary
« Reply #64 on: May 27, 2021, 11:18:05 AM »
There is no jewish practice or positive source for the behavior of proactively seeking non jews and converting them to Judaism.
Why did you qualify it?
Pushing ones religion on someone happens in all religions.
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Re: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary
« Reply #65 on: May 27, 2021, 11:20:15 AM »

As I said, everything I wrote earlier was re missionizing not deception.

Ahem. Not to Christians, but to other Jews? Plenty.

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Re: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary
« Reply #66 on: May 27, 2021, 11:23:19 AM »
If you have Christians presenting themselves as Christain, offering people the chance to do Christian activities, that would be more in line with mivtza Tefillin
Going to -1 this.

If a Christian first asked if someone is Christian and then offered them literature and if the person said they are Jewish they'd wish them a nice day.

That would be the same.
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Offline JlmBoi

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Re: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary
« Reply #67 on: May 27, 2021, 11:24:12 AM »

It got a little confusing..... I think I made my intention clear.
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Offline TimT

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Re: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary
« Reply #68 on: May 27, 2021, 11:24:58 AM »
Pushing ones religion on someone happens in all religions.
But pretending to be one’s religion in order to ensnare unsuspecting people, who are trying to improve in their religion, does not happen in all religions.

From “Rabbis” in “shuls”, to Rosh Hashana & Yom Kippur services, to Passover seders.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 11:29:45 AM by TimT »

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Re: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary
« Reply #69 on: May 27, 2021, 11:30:41 AM »
Going to -1 this.

If a Christian first asked if someone is Christian and then offered them literature and if the person said they are Jewish they'd wish them a nice day.

That would be the same.

Meh. You omitted "(from a secular standpoint)". And I said "more in line", not that it is exactly the same. From a secular standpoint, if you aren't misrepresenting yourself, what difference does it make if the person is of the same religion or not? You are offering a service, and if the person wants to avail themselves of it, good on them.



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Re: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary
« Reply #70 on: May 27, 2021, 11:30:53 AM »
Why did you qualify it?
Pushing ones religion on someone happens in all religions.
Probably true. What does that change? Are Christian missionaries methods ever publicly scrutinized within the religion?
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Re: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary
« Reply #71 on: May 27, 2021, 11:47:55 AM »
Example of Judaism preying on the vulnerable? I think not. Definitely not widely accepted or condoned. Are Christian missionaries methods ever publicly scrutinized within the religion?

Everything is relative. You wouldnt consider targeting poor russian immgrants with free food, camp, private schooling etc etc. preying on the vulnerable?

But pretending to be one’s religion in order to ensnare unsuspecting people, who are trying to improve in their religion, does not happen in all religions.


Within Judaism, many consider sects that arent their own a "different religion". How many people consider the neturei karta frum jews, or the nuts in south america (dressed in all black, forgot their names), frum jews.

Going to -1 this.

If a Christian first asked if someone is Christian and then offered them literature and if the person said they are Jewish they'd wish them a nice day.

That would be the same.
Ha, that would be way better. The tefillin guys and breslov book dudes, have a very hard time saying no. I personally know someone that was working on a kiruv project and got harrased in times square, did major damage to all the efforts made.

Misrepresentation and deception can be legislated for. I didn't get the impression that that was the plan for the legislation here.

As I said, everything I wrote earlier was re missionizing not deception.
Very slippery slope. Where does that line stand? You see whats happening with the yeshiva curriculum  that's currently being fought. Why wouldn't a forced program with no english be considered deception??   



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Re: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary
« Reply #73 on: May 27, 2021, 11:58:41 AM »
Are Christian missionaries methods ever publicly scrutinized within the religion?
Not sure as I am not a Christian.
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Re: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary
« Reply #74 on: May 27, 2021, 12:00:05 PM »
You wouldnt consider targeting poor russian immgrants with free food, camp, private schooling etc etc. preying on the vulnerable?

Again with these evil missionaries feeding hungry immigrants and providing social and educational programs to the poor. The horror.

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Re: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary
« Reply #75 on: May 27, 2021, 12:03:43 PM »
Again with these evil missionaries feeding hungry immigrants and providing social and educational programs to the poor. The horror.
So if they are providing food etc then it okay to "prey on the vulnerable"?

(I obviously dont have a problem with said organizations, just playing devils advocate)

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Re: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary
« Reply #76 on: May 27, 2021, 12:08:38 PM »
So if they are providing food etc then it okay to "prey on the vulnerable"?

(I obviously dont have a problem with said organizations, just playing devils advocate)

You say prey, I say care for. Fleishik cholent potato, parev cholent potahto

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Re: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary
« Reply #77 on: May 27, 2021, 12:11:06 PM »
You say prey, I say care for. Fleishik cholent potato, parev cholent potahto
Yup. If these missionaries just cared for their neighbors a little more, maybe erev shabbos kugel, no one would have an issue.

Offline Euclid

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Re: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary
« Reply #78 on: May 27, 2021, 12:13:58 PM »
Yup. If these missionaries just cared for their neighbors a little more, maybe erev shabbos kugel, no one would have an issue.
They would be way more "successful" too - we saw what people are willing to do for a bowl of chulent ;)

Offline TimT

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Re: American Chareidi Resident Of French Hill Is A Christian Missionary
« Reply #79 on: May 27, 2021, 12:36:07 PM »
Within Judaism, many consider sects that arent their own a "different religion".
Different branches of the same menorah.
How many people consider the neturei karta frum jews
Everybody considers them jews. They could be extreme & whacky but nonetheless jews.
or the nuts in south america (dressed in all black, forgot their names), frum jews.
Lev Tahor. Again, jews just like all of us. There are numerous jewish organizations trying to save the children from the abuse.