LIFE INSURANCE

[CountValentine]

This might be a crazy question but is your community big enough to be self insured?

[Abey]

This might be a crazy question but is your community big enough to be self insured?

There is actually an org doing something similar to LI but I don’t see why community would play any factor

[CountValentine]

I would like to start running ads in local newspapers really screaming this from the rooftops.  I'm looking for anyone to sponsor (can be an ad as well for your company etc).  PM if interested. Tizku lemitzvos

This seems like a great idea. Getting any interest so far?

[Mordyk]

This seems like a great idea. Getting any interest so far?

nobody yet. 

[Essen est zich]

I recall @ExGingi, there being a advertisement for insurance in the yagdil torah calendar given in CH...

[Dan]

Agree 1000%

Get everyone 21 y/o who gets married a term plan. Then all the brokers and financial planners can push their businesses after.

We can't turn our young people off by overcomplicating the need and availability of basic term.

+1K.
From my own experience, I was turned off when local brokers in my shul and community kept trying to hard sell WL when I was a newlywed. I didn't have the funds at the time to think about WL.
There's a time and place to sell, and that wasn't it.

[yos9694]

While I agree that the Cash Value discussion shouldn't be part of this one, and I tried to avoid it in most of my posts on this thread, I have multiple WL policies which were purchased at various times between 2001 and 2020.

You mention whole life in almost every one of your posts in this thread starting from the very first one (and in every other thread that life insurance is mentioned). Not really avoiding it at all.

Its really counterproductive because instead of seeing irrefutable arguments for getting life coverage what people will anchor to is the arguments against WL as an excuse to not buy any insurance.

What people need to know is that you can buy term DIRECTLY (i.e. without a broker) for rock bottom prices from top rated companies. No broker means you can buy what you want, not what they want you to buy. And underwriting nowadays is MUCH EASIER, sometimes even instant. If you don't have already, get a quote today! Some examples:
Havenlife.com
Ladderlife.com

[AsherO]

There are two types of conversions to WL, one is as you describe but quite uncommon in practice. More commonly switching to WL means you buy a new WL policy as of that day and pay the premiums for your current age but original health rating.

Really now? What's the difference in what these two conversions are called in the industry, and where do I see in my policy which one I have?

[yos9694]

Really now? What's the difference in what these two conversions are called in the industry, and where do I see in my policy which one I have?

Attained Age term conversion (standard)

Original Age term conversion (expensive)

[skyguy918]

You mention whole life in almost every one of your posts in this thread starting from the very first one (and in every other thread that life insurance is mentioned). Not really avoiding it at all.

Its really counterproductive because instead of seeing irrefutable arguments for getting life coverage what people will anchor to is the arguments against WL as an excuse to not buy any insurance.

What people need to know is that you can buy term DIRECTLY (i.e. without a broker) for rock bottom prices from top rated companies. No broker means you can buy what you want, not what they want you to buy. And underwriting nowadays is MUCH EASIER, sometimes even instant. If you don't have already, get a quote today! Some examples:
Havenlife.com
Ladderlife.com

I'll also add that even if you want to buy from a company that you can't buy directly from, you can still do your own research and buy whatever you want by contacting a broker and telling them I already know what I want, can you broker this policy. When I was in the market I used term4sale to compare quotes and figure out what I wanted. In my case, I have a friend who is an agent for one of the major mutual insurers (who of course tried to sell me on their permanent insurance options at some point prior), so I just had him broker it for me, despite it not being from his company. (The true direct/no underwriting options were not competitive enough for me to make it worthwhile.)

[Mordyk]

+1K.
From my own experience, I was turned off when local brokers in my shul and community kept trying to hard sell WL when I was a newlywed. I didn't have the funds at the time to think about WL.
There's a time and place to sell, and that wasn't it.

i had a little different. i was sucked in to a WL "Chasuna Plan" $2300 tax return went straight there. There was no reason  to spend on WL my monthly salary at the time. I let it lapse after two years. (not sure how after paying them $4600 there was no value in it yet. I mean in the market it would have been $5k etc.  but thats a different issue)

[ExGingi]

I recall @ExGingi, there being a advertisement for insurance in the yagdil torah calendar given in CH...

It will probably be back once the calendar is back, which might happen once I find a good assistant to hire.

[Dan]

i had a little different. i was sucked in to a WL "Chasuna Plan" $2300 tax return went straight there. There was no reason  to spend on WL my monthly salary at the time. I let it lapse after two years. (not sure how after paying them $4600 there was no value in it yet. I mean in the market it would have been $5k etc.  but thats a different issue)

Frustrating and I do think it's a reason many newlyweds wind up getting nothing, especially when term is said to "just be throwing money away" in an effort to hard sell WL.

[ExGingi]

You mention whole life in almost every one of your posts in this thread starting from the very first one (and in every other thread that life insurance is mentioned). Not really avoiding it at all.

Its really counterproductive because instead of seeing irrefutable arguments for getting life coverage what people will anchor to is the arguments against WL as an excuse to not buy any insurance.

Your critique is appreciated, though I mostly avoided the discussion about the CASH VALUE of Whole Life and its performance (except for mentioning that it could be attractive) up until today. I was mostly talking about the value of having permanent coverage and the additional benefits once life insurance isn't needed to protect a family from becoming destitute.

What people need to know is that you can buy term DIRECTLY (i.e. without a broker) for rock bottom prices from top rated companies. No broker means you can buy what you want, not what they want you to buy. And underwriting nowadays is MUCH EASIER, sometimes even instant. If you don't have already, get a quote today! Some examples:
Havenlife.com
Ladderlife.com

One can also get a mortgage without a broker (yet most people will use a broker to shop for the best deal, which might not always be the cheepest, and smooth things out).

Havenlife is a MassMutual brand and IINM they sell non-covertible term.

Ladderlife seems to be an Allianz brand.

I am guessing that they are using inside licensed agents (just like GEICO uses inside licensed agents) as insurance must be sold by a licensed professional.

Checking my quote comparison software shows a few quotes cheaper than Havenlife. And that's even before we discuss anyone that might have underwriting challenges (personal health, family health, driving record, etc.) or the value of being able to convert, or any riders that other companies might have available.

[skyguy918]

Your critique is appreciated, though I mostly avoided the discussion about the CASH VALUE of Whole Life and its performance (except for mentioning that it could be attractive) up until today. I was mostly talking about the value of having permanent coverage and the additional benefits once life insurance isn't needed to protect a family from becoming destitute.
One can also get a mortgage without a broker (yet most people will use a broker to shop for the best deal, which might not always be the cheepest, and smooth things out).

Havenlife is a MassMutual brand and IINM they sell non-covertible term.

Ladderlife seems to be an Allianz brand.

I am guessing that they are using inside licensed agents (just like GEICO uses inside licensed agents) as insurance must be sold by a licensed professional.

Checking my quote comparison software shows a few quotes cheaper than Havenlife. And that's even before we discuss anyone that might have underwriting challenges (personal health, family health, driving record, etc.) or the value of being able to convert, or any riders that other companies might have available.

When he said directly, he means without having to deal with a human. And yes, there are absolutely people out there who will care about that. You're trying to push perfect over good, when it's really good or nothing for some people.

[ExGingi]

When he said directly, he means without having to deal with a human. And yes, there are absolutely people out there who will care about that. You're trying to push perfect over good, when it's really good or nothing for some people.

I highly doubt that there is no human interaction when buying any signifcant amount of insurance. One can get the quote online, but there are plenty of online quote comparison sites that can show quotes (though those quotes are theoretical and subject to underwriting).

I know that many people prefer to shop alone, and appreciate that, as I am such a type. But I am aware of the ins and outs of this industry and think it's definitely better to use a professional (just like I think it's better to use a professional when shopping for a mortgage).

The push and pull of sales has always been there, and will always be there. There are also different personalities on both sides of the transaction. Everyone can find whatever they are comfortable with.

[skyguy918]

I highly doubt that there is no human interaction when buying any signifcant amount of insurance. One can get the quote online, but there are plenty of online quote comparison sites that can show quotes (though those quotes are theoretical and subject to underwriting).

I know that many people prefer to shop alone, and appreciate that, as I am such a type. But I am aware of the ins and outs of this industry and think it's definitely better to use a professional (just like I think it's better to use a professional when shopping for a mortgage).

The push and pull of sales has always been there, and will always be there. There are also different personalities on both sides of the transaction. Everyone can find whatever they are comfortable with.

As someone who is 'aware of the ins and outs of this industry' I would've thought you'd be more aware of what Haven, Ladder and others are trying to do:

InstantTerm is an innovative algorithmic underwriting process that can provide immediate coverage for qualified applicants up to age 59 who are applying for up to $1M in coverage. InstantTerm is not yet available for non-U.S. citizens.

I don't know what the percentages are, they certainly don't offer it to everyone who applies, but it only takes a few minutes on their site to find out whether you're eligible, or if you need regular underwriting.

[ExGingi]

As someone who is 'aware of the ins and outs of this industry' I would've thought you'd be more aware of what Haven, Ladder and others are trying to do:

I don't know what the percentages are, they certainly don't offer it to everyone who applies, but it only takes a few minutes on their site to find out whether you're eligible, or if you need regular underwriting.

They are not the only ones using such underwriting. There are quite a few (especially outside of NY) that will underwrite without a physical exam, though most will take a two-step (internal) process where there's the automated underwriting which is subject to manual review. That's obviously one way to bring costs down over traditional underwriting. Less manpower and actually more background sniffing.

[Mordyk]

this discussion WL vs Term should be moved to correct thread. this thread is a to have or not to have...

the more confusing this thread is, the less likely someone will be inspired to get coverage.

[yos9694]

I'll just reiterate that you absolutely can get a term policy from those companies I listed without talking to a human. I have a Haven Life policy for 500k that I applied for and was approved for in 20 minutes during my lunch break 5 years ago (not my only policy). I've helped many other people do the same.

Companies are doing this because they believe they can use existing data to predict your risk (including doctor notes, prescription histories, etc) and dont need to make customers go through the pain of getting examined just for the policy. It saves customers the hassle and it may save them money. Not everyone will qualify but I bet most young people have a good chance (and if not, you lose nothing- they'll just ask you to make a traditional exam appointment).