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« Last edited by YitzyS on April 29, 2021, 09:29:16 AM »

Author Topic: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World  (Read 10880 times)

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« on: April 27, 2021, 05:46:14 PM »
What does it truly cost to support a frum family?

There are so many variables from family size to where one lives. So letís have an honest conversation about income and expenses.

https://mishpacha.com/fuzzy-math/

Offline JuryDuty

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Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2021, 06:09:50 PM »
So... what does it cost? What do you need to earn to support a family? As someone who is just entering the working field, this is something that I really want to know the answers to
Jury Duty: A time with nothing to do but chill and write a TR. Kinda like the beach without a view and an ocean breeze.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2021, 06:14:13 PM »
https://mishpacha.com/fuzzy-math/

The role tzedaka plays in keeping the frum communities afloat is very, very, very underestimated.
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Offline JuryDuty

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Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2021, 06:15:16 PM »
The role tzedaka plays in keeping the frum communities afloat is very, very, very underestimated.

Putting aside those who are accepting tzedaka, what does an average NYC family need to earn to cover expenses?
Jury Duty: A time with nothing to do but chill and write a TR. Kinda like the beach without a view and an ocean breeze.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2021, 06:23:48 PM »
Putting aside those who are accepting tzedaka, what does an average NYC family need to earn to cover expenses?

Where in NYC? At what point in life? How many kids? Which community? What standard of living? There are too many variables for there to be a straight answer to that question.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2021, 06:28:42 PM »
Putting aside those who are accepting tzedaka, what does an average NYC family need to earn to cover expenses?
Where in NYC? At what point in life? How many kids? Which community? What standard of living? There are too many variables for there to be a straight answer to that question.
One of the biggest variables is tuition. In Lakewood it's well under $10k per child while in Teaneck etc. it can be well over 20k.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline JuryDuty

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Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2021, 06:37:37 PM »
Where in NYC? At what point in life? How many kids? Which community? What standard of living? There are too many variables for there to be a straight answer to that question.

So how about a personal answer?
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Offline JuryDuty

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Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2021, 06:40:20 PM »
One of the biggest variables is tuition. In Lakewood it's well under $10k per child while in Teaneck etc. it can be well over 20k.

Let's start with not lakewood
Jury Duty: A time with nothing to do but chill and write a TR. Kinda like the beach without a view and an ocean breeze.

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Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2021, 06:42:27 PM »
So how about a personal answer?

Honestly, I'm happy to theorize here and have people smarter than me tell me I'm wrong, but if you want a proper answer, you need to sit down with an experienced financial advisor who can break down the specifics of your personal situation.
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Offline JuryDuty

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Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2021, 06:43:39 PM »
Honestly, I'm happy to theorize here and have people smarter than me tell me I'm wrong, but if you want a proper answer, you need to sit down with an experienced financial advisor who can break down the specific of your personal situation.

I can definitely sit down with a personal advisor, but like the article, I just have this question of what are others doing? That's why I'm curious about others' experiences
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2021, 06:44:05 PM »
What does an average NYC family need to earn to cover expenses?

This varies hugely and depends on endless variables. Some examples that move the needle by thousands/year:
1. Shabbos and YomTov meals, if you typically/always eat out at friends/family, thatís savings of thousands a year, if you typically host thatís an added expense that can add up to thousands a year
2. First child increases your household expenses by 20-40%, depending on childcare. Each additional child could be another 20%
3. Whether your children go to day camp or overnight camp
4. Whether (and which) government subsidies you get
5. How frequently you vacation, and where. Whether you own a summer home
Etc. etc. etc. to infinity

Offline AsherO

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Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2021, 06:47:01 PM »
I can definitely sit down with a personal advisor, but like the article, I just have this question of what are others doing? That's why I'm curious about others' experiences

Bottom line is people more or less live within their means and spend more/less on any specific expense based on their own set of priorities. That includes how much you budget for tzedakah, savings, etc. Obviously the more you make, the more flexibility you have.

Offline JuryDuty

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Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2021, 06:48:16 PM »
This varies hugely and depends on endless variables. Some examples that move the needle by thousands/year:
1. Shabbos and YomTov meals, if you typically/always eat out at friends/family, thatís savings of thousands a year, if you typically host thatís an added expense that can add up to thousands a year
2. First child increases your household expenses by 20-40%, depending on childcare. Each additional child could be another 20%
3. Whether your children go to day camp or overnight camp
4. Whether (and which) government subsidies you get
5. How frequently you vacation, and where. Whether you own a summer home
Etc. etc. etc. to infinity

I understand that it's a topic that many people don't want to talk about, but I think there would be value if people would give a vague sense of their expenses ie location, kids, etc, and a range of their salary
Jury Duty: A time with nothing to do but chill and write a TR. Kinda like the beach without a view and an ocean breeze.

Offline ari3

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Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2021, 10:01:35 PM »
What does it truly cost to support a frum family?

There are so many variables from family size to where one lives. So letís have an honest conversation about income and expenses.

https://mishpacha.com/fuzzy-math/
The author wonders how people make it, complains people aren't forthcoming with answers, yet somehow has enough knowledge to confidently make an assertion that "The reality is that most people are living in debt", and preaches about peoples spending habits and priorities. A pretty useless article IMHO.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2021, 10:08:35 PM »
How about estimates for your own situation. I could do it in a heartbeat but would be completely useless for this forum.
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Offline shwarmabob

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Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2021, 10:59:55 PM »
So letís have an honest conversation about income and expenses.
On a public forum?  ::)
The article is interesting, but only have questions and no answers, which is fine
Many people I know essentially live on the savings or real estate appreciations of an earlier generation...
Even "professionals" who earn more than the average American have hard time paying for housing and yeshiva tuition.

Offline JuryDuty

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Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2021, 11:04:10 PM »
On a public forum?  ::)

The beauty of an anonymous forum
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Offline S209

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Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2021, 11:13:53 PM »
yet somehow has enough knowledge to confidently make an assertion that "The reality is that most people are living in debt"
-1

That was a quote by someone the author spoke to.
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Offline ari3

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Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2021, 12:02:36 AM »
-1

That was a quote by someone the author spoke to.
I reread it, you are right it wasn't the authors assertion it was an anonymous source who works in "the Jewish nonprofit world". Not much better

Offline yelped

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Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2021, 12:05:33 AM »
The author wonders how people make it, complains people aren't forthcoming with answers, yet somehow has enough knowledge to confidently make an assertion that "The reality is that most people are living in debt", and preaches about peoples spending habits and priorities. A pretty useless article IMHO.
It's actually a great article. Sorry about your humble opinion.  :P

The point is to generate a conversation on why we have the standards we have here and how we can afford it.