Topic Wiki

Please take the 100% Anonymous survey here. See the results here.
h/t @MarkS
« Last edited by YitzyS on April 29, 2021, 09:29:16 AM »

Author Topic: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World  (Read 5830 times)

Offline PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 13631
  • Total likes: 1850
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #100 on: April 28, 2021, 08:27:40 PM »
I spend on groceries average $1800 for family of 6.  Am I doing something wrong?
The guy a few posts up is at $1000/mo excluding chicken and meat, so you're about the same...
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר Ė יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 4135
  • Total likes: 4494
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #101 on: April 28, 2021, 08:28:48 PM »
Couldnít agree more. Which is why we have this thread. We should add a wiki with all the terminology. Investing for oneís future isnít complicated or complex.

Personally, I skipped over that thread because in my head I have many steps to take in order to get my finances in order before the word "retirement" is something I can even process. I think many are in the same boat, and I'll be the first to admit it's a big mistake. As part of the education process, those who are working to spread financial literacy in our communities should consider that non-traditional verbiage may be more effective in increasing the receptiveness to these concepts.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline Mordyk

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 3700
  • Total likes: 671
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: Some of this and some of that.
Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #102 on: April 28, 2021, 08:34:21 PM »
#TYH

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 9549
  • Total likes: 3041
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #103 on: April 28, 2021, 08:45:00 PM »
I spend on groceries average $1800 for family of 6.  Am I doing something wrong?
10/per person a day? I would say you are doing something right.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline Fish Tank

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 554
  • Total likes: 54
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #104 on: April 28, 2021, 09:27:55 PM »
You cant drive with a car that's not insured. So the government came up with a program that makes the middle class pay for the poor peoples insurance. Dollar a day insurance gives the least amount of coverage possible so when DADI hits a regular insured person DADI pays out up to 5k in damages (and anything else, rental reimbursement etc. Is all included in that 5k max). If the damage is more than that the regular insured guy will have to go to their own insurance company for the money, raising their own premiums and in turn basically paying for the other persons DADI.
The other driver can sue you for damages that aren't covered by your insurance. If you have low income and no assets, the lawsuit wont get very far. Therefore, this dollar a day insurance policy is not ideal for someone who earns decent money and owns assets. It works out great for those with low income and no assets.

Offline Fish Tank

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 554
  • Total likes: 54
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #105 on: April 28, 2021, 09:32:03 PM »
Unfortunately he can be holding himself back permanently. He should look into options like401k, FSA etc
@aygart mentioned 401K and FSA.
Medicaid eligibility (the "big ticket" program for most) is based on AGI. FSA, HSA, and Traditional IRA contributions all lower AGI.
I'm currently in this situation.

The problem is that Medicaid looks at your monthly paystub, not your previous year tax return. Therefore, contributing to an IRA, charity, childcare, etc. isn't very helpful for lowering ones AGI for eligibility purposes.



Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 3667
  • Total likes: 332
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #106 on: April 28, 2021, 09:40:59 PM »
I'm currently in this situation.

The problem is that Medicaid looks at your monthly paystub, not your previous year tax return. Therefore, contributing to an IRA, charity, childcare, etc. isn't very helpful for lowering ones AGI for eligibility purposes.



in NY @ExGingi insists that "state of health" Medicaid looks at AGI, not stubs (though for those still getting through HRA they do check stubs instead. but you can move to SOH, not back)
dunno NJ

Offline Fish Tank

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 554
  • Total likes: 54
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #107 on: April 28, 2021, 09:43:24 PM »
in NY @ExGingi insists that "state of health" Medicaid looks at AGI, not stubs (though for those still getting through HRA they do check stubs instead. but you can move to SOH, not back)
dunno NJ
Got it. I'm in NJ. Didn't realize he was referring to NY.
Ty

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 10820
  • Total likes: 3410
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #108 on: April 28, 2021, 09:48:38 PM »
in NY @ExGingi insists that "state of health" Medicaid looks at AGI, not stubs (though for those still getting through HRA they do check stubs instead. but you can move to SOH, not back)
dunno NJ

I believe NY follows federal law on this. On the NY exchange you can enter deductions such as IRA contributions. I am unfamiliar with the mechanics of the NJ exchange, but the ACA definitely made AGI the yardstick.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline MarkS

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 3738
  • Total likes: 20
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile

Offline yelped

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2015
  • Posts: 6454
  • Total likes: 1298
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #110 on: April 28, 2021, 10:20:53 PM »
in NY @ExGingi insists that "state of health" Medicaid looks at AGI, not stubs (though for those still getting through HRA they do check stubs instead. but you can move to SOH, not back)
dunno NJ
I can say from experience that this is the case in NY (the system will even look it up your tax return automatically if you allow it to). This is not the case in NJ, although you can show them some deductions in person (they won't accept all, while NY will accept anything that the Feds do).

Offline Fish Tank

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 554
  • Total likes: 54
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #111 on: April 28, 2021, 10:21:36 PM »
Here's a start. What else should I add?

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfCVhNiFBJxZK3zRwmSSS9oy84MEnaPTgHsn1P8EXZMxY75Mw/viewform?usp=sf_link
Looks great.

Cleaning help question doesn't have room for an answer.

There's no question for household expenses (walmart, target, amazon, etc)

CC charges - the question should be "how much of the above expenses do you spend on a cc?"


Online Kobe Bryant

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Posts: 2773
  • Total likes: 1630
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #112 on: April 28, 2021, 10:23:17 PM »
Here's a start. What else should I add?

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfCVhNiFBJxZK3zRwmSSS9oy84MEnaPTgHsn1P8EXZMxY75Mw/viewform?usp=sf_link
Off the top of my head,  Debt Repayment, Clothing, Personal Care, Monthly Subscriptions, RF/Savings.

Offline drosenberg88429

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jul 2020
  • Posts: 194
  • Total likes: 324
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #113 on: April 28, 2021, 10:23:21 PM »
Here's a start. What else should I add?

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfCVhNiFBJxZK3zRwmSSS9oy84MEnaPTgHsn1P8EXZMxY75Mw/viewform?usp=sf_link

Change monthly income to taxable monthly income and non taxable monthly income. It's anonymous anyways. (Even amex has as 2 separate categories on cc application.)

I would put occupation and education level in too.

I would also ask what programs are being taken advantage of.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2021, 10:27:31 PM by drosenberg88429 »

Offline avromie7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 6580
  • Total likes: 1215
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #114 on: April 28, 2021, 10:23:53 PM »
I'm currently in this situation.

The problem is that Medicaid looks at your monthly paystub, not your previous year tax return. Therefore, contributing to an IRA, charity, childcare, etc. isn't very helpful for lowering ones AGI for eligibility purposes.
1) If you contribute to a 401k or HSA directly from your paycheck, it will lower your taxable income on the paystub.
2) IIRC there is a section in the application for IRA contributions that they use to lower your AGI.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline MarkS

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 3738
  • Total likes: 20
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
« Last Edit: April 28, 2021, 10:29:12 PM by MarkS »

Offline Fish Tank

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 554
  • Total likes: 54
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #116 on: April 28, 2021, 10:27:47 PM »
1) If you contribute to a 401k or HSA directly from your paycheck, it will lower your taxable income on the paystub.
2) IIRC there is a section in the application for IRA contributions that they use to lower your AGI.
1) Correct, but I was referring to child care, charity, and IRA.
2) Maybe I missed it.

Offline Fish Tank

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 554
  • Total likes: 54
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #117 on: April 28, 2021, 10:32:09 PM »
Change monthly income to taxable monthly income and non taxable monthly income.
What's non taxable? Do you mean UI? Or you mean money that is being diverted to a retirement/investment account? If the latter, the question should be "how much income is sent straight to savings" or something like that. Because many won't consider part of their monthly income for the equation at hand since they can't access it now.


I would also ask what programs are being taken advantage of.
Good idea.

Offline drosenberg88429

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jul 2020
  • Posts: 194
  • Total likes: 324
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #118 on: April 28, 2021, 10:33:45 PM »
What's non taxable? Do you mean UI? Or you mean money that is being diverted to a retirement/investment account? If the latter, the question should be "how much income is sent straight to savings" or something like that. Because many won't consider it income since they can't access it now.

Good idea.

Non taxable income means income not reported for tax purposes.

Offline avromie7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 6580
  • Total likes: 1215
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World
« Reply #119 on: April 28, 2021, 10:34:35 PM »
1) Correct, but I was referring to child care, charity, and IRA.
2) Maybe I missed it.
I guess your employer doesn't offer FSA/DCA for childcare.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.