Fuzzy Math - Personal Finances In The Frum World

[Dan]

This thread needs an anonymous form with all of the variables that people can fill out

[CountValentine]

This thread needs an anonymous form with all of the variables that people can fill out

I volunteer @Lurker

[ExGingi]

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/editorial/167815/op-ed-whos-to-judge.html

https://crownheights.info/op-ed/582654/op-ed-just-aint-worth/

[avromie7]

Some people do have to though. Whether they can afford it or not. There are definitely people who would rather be in debt than never go on vacation or never enjoy some extras in life. And I don’t think you can blame them.

This kind of attitude is a pretty sure guarantee to always be in debt and trying to play catch up.

[etech0]

Medicaid is a little more complicated, I'm familiar with the NJ program. There is a hard cutoff for adults and a higher hard cutoff for pregnant women, but children have a phase out. There are increasing income brackets with increasing premiums and co-pays.

And premiums have been temporarily canceled

[avromie7]

And premiums have been temporarily canceled

Now during COVID many phase outs are cancelled, I was talking about in general. FS has no phase out now, anyone eligible gets the full amount as if they have $0 income.

[yos9694]

This thread needs an anonymous form with all of the variables that people can fill out

I was going to say similar. Could someone start a Google spreadsheet and create columns for the answers? Might make sense for a few people to work on the columns first before asking anyone to fill it out. Then you can try to get as many DPs as possible and see what there is to learn from the data.

Columns: Location, # of children age 0-2, # of children school age, # post high school at home, Childcare, tuition, housing (utilities and mortgage+taxes or rent), car cost, Groceries, Takeout, Phones & Internet, Cleaning help, Clothing, etc

[gozalim]

Dollar a day car insurance,

tell me more

[mmgfarb]

I was going to say similar. Could someone start a Google spreadsheet and create columns for the answers? Might make sense for a few people to work on the columns first before asking anyone to fill it out. Then you can try to get as many DPs as possible and see what there is to learn from the data.

Columns: Location, # of children age 0-2, # of children school age, # post high school at home, Childcare, tuition, housing (utilities and mortgage+taxes or rent), car cost, Groceries, Takeout, Phones & Internet, Cleaning help, Clothing, etc

I can volunteer to create a google form that links to a spreadsheet. If people want to post what they think are the important things to be on it, otherwise I'll make one and people can critique it. People are welcome to PM/whatsapp me if you want to provide input that way.

[bubkiz]

Unfortunately he can be holding himself back permanently. He should look into options like401k, FSA etc

I think this topic is worthy of its own writeup - how to legally earn more without getting booted off programs.
Its really sad to hear this from so many otherwise smart people. Aside from taking Tzedakah, there are no programs that pay for Chasunahs and its associated costs, summer camp, clothing and so many easy to forecast expenses that the month-to-month program to program earners don't account for.

[avromie7]

I think this topic is worthy of its own writeup - how to legally earn more without getting booted off programs.
Its really sad to hear this from so many otherwise smart people. Aside from taking Tzedakah, there are no programs that pay for Chasunahs and its associated costs, summer camp, clothing and so many easy to forecast expenses that the month-to-month program to program earners don't account for.

-1

[yos9694]

I can volunteer to create a google form that links to a spreadsheet. If people want to post what they think are the important things to be on it, otherwise I'll make one and people can critique it. People are welcome to PM/whatsapp me if you want to provide input that way.

Thanks! Making the skeleton is the hardest part, I'm sure many people will be happy to give reactions and constructive criticism once they see what you create.

[CountValentine]

Anonymous #3

6 kids, 4 in school.
Annual expenses:
 
tuition ~$30k
summer camp  - $5300
housing (renting) - $24k
Car insurance - $2200
utilities - $3800
house cleaning help - $3500
2 Cars - paid for up front, paid for from savings - ~8k/yr
Food - $10k
Medical expenses, including therapy for kids, etc: $15-20k

Some of these are estimates, and there's obviously a lot of other expenses that I need to do a deeper dive to get a handle on. Which I should probably be doing anyway.

[grodnoking]

tell me more

You cant drive with a car that's not insured. So the government came up with a program that makes the middle class pay for the poor peoples insurance. Dollar a day insurance gives the least amount of coverage possible so when DADI hits a regular insured person DADI pays out up to 5k in damages (and anything else, rental reimbursement etc. Is all included in that 5k max). If the damage is more than that the regular insured guy will have to go to their own insurance company for the money, raising their own premiums and in turn basically paying for the other persons DADI.

[gozalim]

You cant drive with a car that's not insured. So the government came up with a program that makes the middle class pay for the poor peoples insurance. Dollar a day insurance gives the least amount of coverage possible so when DADI hits a regular insured person DADI pays out up to 5k in damages (and anything else, rental reimbursement etc. Is all included in that 5k max). If the damage is more than that the regular insured guy will have to go to their own insurance company for the money, raising their own premiums and in turn basically paying for the other persons DADI.

this is NJ specific, right?

[ari3]

I think this topic is worthy of its own writeup - how to legally earn more without getting booted off programs.
Its really sad to hear this from so many otherwise smart people. Aside from taking Tzedakah, there are no programs that pay for Chasunahs and its associated costs, summer camp, clothing and so many easy to forecast expenses that the month-to-month program to program earners don't account for.

you are implying that these people are otherwise smart but what they are doing is stupid. Often what they are doing is actually prudent. You have a choice of making 50k a year ang getting 80k a year in gov programs tax free or you can earn 80k or 100k a year and not make it. If you can't pay your bills now that isn't going to pay for your chasuna either. For someone who starts his career after he already has a family to feed has to worry about covering the bills in the present.

Although all politicians and political parties preach helping the middle class, the system today is set up to incentivize being poor and living off of gov handouts. (the infamous 47% which I assume is a lot higher now)

[Lurker]

Anonymous #3

Location?

[AsherO]

I think this topic is worthy of its own writeup - how to legally earn more without getting booted off programs.

You have my attention.

[CountValentine]

Anonymous #4
Lakewood
8 kids kh
Housing about 12k/year after basement rental income
Utilities a few hundred per month
Cars are owned
Tuition 34k per year for 6
Babysitting/playgroup currently about 8k for 2, going up to 10k next year with more hours
Camp for 3 7k
Day camp for 5 4450
Medical insurance about $12,600 annually + several k in expenses
Dental insurance about $1800 annually + a few k in expenses
Gym membership 1200/year
Car Insurance 7500/year
Clothes and shoes... Way too much
Grocery about $250/wk, more yt time
Maaser, 10%+ of after tax earnings
Cleaning help about 7k/year, really depends on whether or not we have steady help and she shows up or not

These are mostly off the top of my head

[mushkovits]

Anonymous #4
Lakewood
8 kids kh
Housing about 12k/year after basement rental income
Utilities a few hundred per month
Cars are owned
Tuition 34k per year for 6
Babysitting/playgroup currently about 8k for 2, going up to 10k next year with more hours
Camp for 3 7k
Day camp for 5 4450
Medical insurance about $12,600 annually + several k in expenses
Dental insurance about $1800 annually + a few k in expenses
Gym membership 1200/year
Car Insurance 7500/year
Clothes and shoes... Way too much
Grocery about $250/wk, more yt time
Maaser, 10%+ of after tax earnings
Cleaning help about 7k/year, really depends on whether or not we have steady help and she shows up or not

These are mostly off the top of my head

OMG always thought you live right off eastern parkway...must’ve been high on koolaid