Tragedy In Meron!

[TimT]

I don't think it is within our human and limited capacity to comprehend this. To process this. Any attempt to gain clarity will fail. There is no answer in this world.

There is nothing to do but move on. Attempt to better ourselves, comfort ourselves and move on.

גזירה היא מלפני ואין לך רשות להרהר אחריה
And definitely this

Attempt to better ourselves

[CountValentine]

I've been trying to wrap my brain around these events for the past few days.

It is never easy in these tragic events.
I can answer you but don't know how to do it without being accused of trying to turn this into a religious discussion or offending ones religion.
In any tragic event in my lifetime knowing why/how it happened did not ease the pain.

[Lurker]

The fact that Hashem is still so angry at us

I loved everything you wrote except this line. If a child cannot fully comprehend why parents make the decisions they make, who are we to think we can understand why Hashem does what He does? Ultimately, your last two lines are what we live with.

I don't think it is within our human and limited capacity to comprehend this. To process this. Any attempt to gain clarity will fail. There is no answer in this world.

There is nothing to do but move on. Attempt to better ourselves, comfort ourselves and move on.

[VacationLover]

I've been trying to wrap my brain around these events for the past few days.

I am generally not a very emotional person and tragic events do not usually affect me this way. Although this did not affect me personally, I am completely broken up about it.
I have cried more in the past few days than I have in the past several years.

Is it because it hits so close to home?  I've been to Meron multiple times. We've all been there. We all have family that have gone or go on Lag B'Omer.
Is it because there is no one to blame? There is no terrorist to pour our wrath at, no drunk driver to arrest and judge.
Is it the gruesome manner of death? The thought of mothers knowing that their young sons were literally crushed and/or suffocated to death is too much to bear.

Knowing that people I know and care about were minutes away from disaster. A friend was there with his young son.
A family member there with 2 friends. They asked him to join them at the Toldos Aaron fire, but he was tired and declined. They high fived each other and went their separate ways. Mere minutes later, both of his friends are gone.

The thought that each victim had surrounding people pressed up to them that heard or felt them take their last breath. That perhaps felt that they were the one that crushed someone to death. That heard the gasping last breaths of their brothers, perhaps people that they knew closely. How can one ever move on from that?

I've watched every video, read every report, and still have no answers. I am no closer to understanding how this could happen.

As someone who has worked on their emunah for the past few years, I thought it was strong. I was wrong.
I have so many questions. Why? Why would Hashem make this happen? After such a long and terrible year, people were finally gathering. For a good and holy reason! And to result in such a gruesome and horrible tragedy is unfathomable.
Why?? Every person that died looks like they were a special soul. How could this be?
I am scared. The fact that Hashem is still so angry at us, after the punishment that we as a nation, as a world, have received the past year, we are still deserving of a message of this magnitude terrifies me.

I don't think it is within our human and limited capacity to comprehend this. To process this. Any attempt to gain clarity will fail. There is no answer in this world.

There is nothing to do but move on. Attempt to better ourselves, comfort ourselves and move on.

Check this out if you understand Yiddish
אינטערוויו:  "חִזְקוּ וְאִמְצוּ אַל תִּירְאוּ וְאַל תַּעַרְצוּ, כִּי ד' אֱלֹקיךָ הוּא הַהֹולֵךְ עִמָּךְ לֹא יַרְפְּךָ וְלֹא יַעַזְבֶךָּ", טרעפליכע דברי חיזוק לאור המצב "מה נאמר ומה נדבר", ווי אזוי א איד דארף טראכטן אין אזא צייט ווען געפילן בוזשעווען אן אויפהער https://www.yiddish24.com/interviews/12/38573

[pbf]

I loved everything you wrote except this line. If a child cannot fully comprehend why parents make the decisions they make, who are we to think we can understand why Hashem does what He does? Ultimately, your last two lines are what we live with.

Do you not think that a tragedy like this a warning? A sign of anger?
Isn't that what we are supposed to take from this?

I am asking genuinely because I would love to think otherwise.

[pbf]

Check this out if you understand Yiddish
אינטערוויו:  "חִזְקוּ וְאִמְצוּ אַל תִּירְאוּ וְאַל תַּעַרְצוּ, כִּי ד' אֱלֹקיךָ הוּא הַהֹולֵךְ עִמָּךְ לֹא יַרְפְּךָ וְלֹא יַעַזְבֶךָּ", טרעפליכע דברי חיזוק לאור המצב "מה נאמר ומה נדבר", ווי אזוי א איד דארף טראכטן אין אזא צייט ווען געפילן בוזשעווען אן אויפהער https://www.yiddish24.com/interviews/12/38573

I do not. Summarize?

[AsherO]

You joke, but one of the messages circulating about the video cameras signed off something to the effect "don't allow vaccine passports, they're going to use them to kill us".

Conspiracy theories are always buy one get one free, and each free one comes with another free one, ad infinitum...

[Lurker]

Do you not think that a tragedy like this a warning? A sign of anger?
Isn't that what we are supposed to take from this?

I am asking genuinely because I would love to think otherwise.

My personal belief is that one can (and should) use times like these to make a cheshbon hanefesh and as inspiration to improve ourselves, without trying to understand Hashem's "thoughts" or intentions. I look at things like this as a sign that things need to change in some way, on a personal level and for all of klal yisroel. To go down the rabbit hole, chasing human interpretations to why Hashem does things... for me, personally, that ends badly.

[EliJelly]

Do you not think that a tragedy like this a warning? A sign of anger?
Isn't that what we are supposed to take from this?

I am asking genuinely because I would love to think otherwise.

Nobody knows what was the cause of this, sometimes the רבש׳׳ע is showing us tough love, and this time it was VERY tough, but we shouldn't question his דרכים and neither are we capable of understanding them. We should rather focus on how to improve ourselves so we should be worthy to see only חסדים טובים.

Reb Yisrol Dovid Schlezinger said this past shabbos that everyone wants to hear now a נבואה on what we collectively need to improve, as if each and every one of us don't know the areas we as individuals fail in avodas hashem and need improvement, לב יודע מרת נפשו.

[pbf]

It is never easy in these tragic events.
I can answer you but don't know how to do it without being accused of trying to turn this into a religious discussion or offending ones religion.
In any tragic event in my lifetime knowing why/how it happened did not ease the pain.

I appreciate that.

I agree, which is why the blame game does not help anyone. Of course the proper actions should be taken to avoid this, but htat is a question and discussion for people who can actually do something, not us over here. There is no gain.

[flyingace]

Nobody knows what was the cause of this, sometimes the רבש׳׳ע is showing us tough love, and this time it was VERY tough, but we shouldn't question his דרכים and neither are we capable of understanding them. We should rather focus on how to improve ourselves so we should be worthy to see only חסדים טובים.

Reb Yisrol Dovid Schlezinger said this past shabbos that everyone wants to hear now a נבואה on what we collectively need to improve, as if each and every one of us don't know the areas we as individuals fail in avodas hashem and need improvement, לב יודע מרת נפשו.

One of the maspidim at Yossi Kohn ZTZ"l's levaya did specifically mention Shemiras Halashon. I believe it was Rav Shimon Galai.

[AsherO]

As someone who has worked on their emunah for the past few years, I thought it was strong. I was wrong.
I have so many questions. Why? Why would Hashem make this happen? After such a long and terrible year, people were finally gathering. For a good and holy reason! And to result in such a gruesome and horrible tragedy is unfathomable.

The fact that you have all these unanswerable questions yet continue to believe is a testament to the strength of your emunah. Emunah by definition precludes rationale, if you could explain everything there would be no necessity for faith. Be strong, embrace your emunah, and let it carry you through a place where there are no answers.

[pbf]

My personal belief is that one can (and should) use times like these to make a cheshbon hanefesh and as inspiration to improve ourselves, without trying to understand Hashem's "thoughts" or intentions. I look at things like this as a sign that things need to change in some way, on a personal level and for all of klal yisroel. To go down the rabbit hole, chasing human interpretations to why Hashem does things... for me, personally, that ends badly.

I hear...

[aygart]

I appreciate that.

I agree, which is why the blame game does not help anyone. Of course the proper actions should be taken to avoid this, but htat is a question and discussion for people who can actually do something, not us over here. There is no gain.

Sort of. In trying to understand the physical shortcomings that led this to happen the blame will inevitably fall on someone or more.

[EliJelly]

One of the maspidim at Yossi Kohn ZTZ"l's levaya did specifically mention Shemiras Halashon. I believe it was Rav Shimon Galai.

Of course each and every Rov will mention areas he thinks it needs to be addressed, we've heard already so many and they're probably all true.

[pbf]

The fact that you have all these unanswerable questions yet continue to believe is a testament to the strength of your emunah. Emunah by definition precludes rationale, if you could explain everything there would be no necessity for faith. Be strong, embrace your emunah, and let it carry you through a place where there are no answers.

I appreciate that, it actually is comforting

[AsherO]

I appreciate that.

I agree, which is why the blame game does not help anyone. Of course the proper actions should be taken to avoid this, but htat is a question and discussion for people who can actually do something, not us over here. There is no gain.

There are many aspects to the takeaways from what happened, and they each stand on their own. For example:

There can possibly be things that can be done in the natural world to mitigate such risks R”L in the future. There are spiritual lessons to be had. There are survivors to support emotionally, financially, and otherwise. There is unity to bottle up so we can tap into it in the future when the shared-tragedy isn’t weighing down upon us.

These (and other things) are all things to be done because we have to take responsibility for what we can do, even if it won’t answer any of the questions we have about how/why this calamity occurred.

[flyingace]

There are many aspects to the takeaways from what happened, and they each stand on their own. For example:

There can possibly be things that can be done in the natural world to mitigate such risks R”L in the future. There are spiritual lessons to be had. There are survivors to support emotionally, financially, and otherwise. There is unity to bottle up so we can tap into it in the future when the shared-tragedy isn’t weighing down upon us.

These (and other things) are all things to be done because we have to take responsibility for what we can do, even if it won’t answer any of the questions we have about how/why this calamity occurred.

There are many who will take the natural world corrections as proof that those things caused the tragedy. It is very difficult to maintain that divide between Emuna and Hishtadlus in such cases.

[aygart]

There are many who will take the natural world corrections as proof that those things caused the tragedy. It is very difficult to maintain that divide between Emuna and Hishtadlus in such cases.

As it is with everything else in life.

[Abebee]

I've been trying to wrap my brain around these events for the past few days.

I am generally not a very emotional person and tragic events do not usually affect me this way. Although this did not affect me personally, I am completely broken up about it.
I have cried more in the past few days than I have in the past several years.

One explanation I heard of why it hit so many of us so hard is because it could have been anyone. It wasn't a wild group of youngsters doing something malicious. It was a group of Yidden walking away from the Toldos Aron fire. Like so many have mentioned upthread, Hundreds of members on DDF were at one point in their life also walking away from the Toldos Aron fire. I don't think as humans we can ever understand tragedy.