Author Topic: Tragedy In Meron! (Read 87456 times)

PlatinumGuy · « **Reply #180 on:** April 30, 2021, 07:57:56 AM »

Quote from: JlmBoi on April 30, 2021, 04:07:26 AM

I'm not sure if the speed at which מח"ש got involved is a good thing (they realize there are huge questions about police actions) or a bad thing (they want to blame a few people for something they know might have come from higher up). I have personally been in similar situation where people piled up because of a blockage, I have also been in that specific area many times, never have I ever seen police blocking that exit or any similar area in this kind of way. From. The videos it seems there were literally people piled up 3-4 bodies high and the police were just standing there with folded arms. Either there was major negligence bordering on malicious intent, or there a key piece of information missing (I really hope it runs out to be that).

There are claims somebody fainted and the police blocked the traffic so he isn't trampled.

Quote from: PlatinumGuy on April 29, 2021, 08:41:29 PM

The million dollar question is if the police blockage was before the stampede and caused it, or a result of the stampede and an attempt to resolve it (whether it helped or made it worse). It's very possible it's the police's fault, but it's also true that people jump to blame them.

Either way, the problem isn't so much a handful of cops that may have made a huge mistake under extreme conditions, but the broader planning that allowed a situation where something like this can happen and can be rectified for future events.

The sad part is people blaming police means it will be more difficult to control crowds at other events.

Investigations always open as soon as possible while evidence is fresh and witnesses can't plan their testimony. It will almost definitely end up in a national inquiry commission.

PlatinumGuy · « **Reply #181 on:** April 30, 2021, 07:59:47 AM »

The police is aware of 40 people whose families still can't find them.

ExGingi · « **Reply #182 on:** April 30, 2021, 07:59:58 AM »

Quote from: PlatinumGuy on April 30, 2021, 07:39:37 AM

אל על משתתפת בצער המשפחות השכולות באסון בהר מירון.

החברה מציעה לסייע בהבאת קרובי משפחה מדרגה ראשונה (הורים, אחים, ילדים, בני זוג) מארה"ב, אנגליה, צרפת וכל מדינה אחרת ממנה מפעילה אל על טיסות ישירות לישראל. אל על מציעה לכל משפחה עד שני כרטיסי טיסה בתשלום של מיסי הנמל בלבד. על מנת לממש את הכרטיסים יש לפנות למוקד השירות של אל על ולהציג תעודת

פטירה וצילום דרכון. ניתן להזמין כרטיס טיסה לטיסות הממריאות עד 4 למאי 2021 . לשם כך נפתח קו טלפון ייעודי במספר 03-9404040.

Excellent move and PR from ELAL.

Finally a new corporate DNA. This move will definitely make me consider flying ELAL.

ExGingi · « **Reply #183 on:** April 30, 2021, 08:04:08 AM »

Quote from: PlatinumGuy on April 30, 2021, 07:57:56 AM

Either way, the problem isn't so much a handful of cops that may have made a huge mistake under extreme conditions, but the broader planning that allowed a situation where something like this can happen and can be rectified for future events.

Indeed. And the tweet from Aryeh Ehrlich from 2018 is a strong indictment against those who have the power to do something.

TimT · « **Reply #184 on:** April 30, 2021, 08:07:20 AM »

https://twitter.com/MaarivOnline/status/1388101695129989120

yelped · « **Reply #185 on:** April 30, 2021, 08:09:24 AM »

Quote from: farvus nisht? on April 30, 2021, 07:56:04 AM

I was there my self, b"h I'm fine

Total chaos

while I was sitting by r Chaskel roth's bm"d saying tehilim a boucher came down barely walking saying he was laying under bodies everyone was screaming and then it started getting quieter ant quieter..........
Hatzalah checked him and told him to go to the nearest terem center to take x-rays - the guy couldn't even walk! But they needed the beds and ambulances for those badly injured

My own hashgacha pratis: was gonna go by bus but last minute decided to take my car, was gonna park in tzfat and last minute decided to park in private car parking lot - there were no buses to tzfat but we did manage to get to this parking lot which is not so far so i was able to get home b"h.

yuneeq · « **Reply #186 on:** April 30, 2021, 08:09:40 AM »

Quote from: YitzyS on April 30, 2021, 07:47:36 AM

Most media sources are using the term stampede. Reading eyewitness accounts, however, it seems more like it was a pileup, meaning a non-intentional crush that was caused by increased overcrowding without an outlet of release, and possibly by people falling on top of each over on the staircase/hill.

There is a huge difference between the two. The entire world is waking up to news reports that a bunch of Orthodox Jews stampeded 45 people to death. Is that a wrong narrative? (Please enlighten me if you are an eyewitness or have spoken to one.)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stampede#Crushes

Crushes are very often referred to as stampedes but, unlike true stampedes, they can cause many deaths. Crowd density is more important than size. A density of four people per square meter begins to be dangerous, even if the crowd is not very large.
Academic experts who study crowd movements and crushing disasters oppose the use of the term "stampede".[9] "The rhetoric of 'stampede' is often used to imply that the crowd is animalistic or mindless". Most reported "stampedes" are better understood as "progressive crowd collapses":[9][10] beginning at densities of about six[9] or seven[8] people per square meter, individuals are pressed so closely against each other they are unable to move as individuals, and shockwaves can travel through a crowd which, at such densities, behaves somewhat like a fluid.[8]

TimT · « **Reply #187 on:** April 30, 2021, 08:10:05 AM »

https://twitter.com/MaarivOnline/status/1388101871013924865

SSLPhD · « **Reply #188 on:** April 30, 2021, 08:10:43 AM »

Quote from: YitzyS on April 30, 2021, 07:47:36 AM

Most media sources are using the term stampede. Reading eyewitness accounts, however, it seems more like it was a pileup, meaning a non-intentional crush that was caused by increased overcrowding without an outlet of release, and possibly by people falling on top of each over on the staircase/hill.

There is a huge difference between the two. The entire world is waking up to news reports that a bunch of Orthodox Jews stampeded 45 people to death. Is that a wrong narrative? (Please enlighten me if you are an eyewitness or have spoken to one.)

You're right. A stampede is what wild animals do, like bison on the Great Plains stampeding through wagon train camps or to their deaths on a buffalo run. A human crush is when people are crushed from pushing and shoving and falling on top of each other. As people fall, space is created for additional people to fall and be crushed by those behind. Very different connotation.

TimT · « **Reply #189 on:** April 30, 2021, 08:12:31 AM »

https://twitter.com/bahazit_news/status/1388100022219198465
https://twitter.com/bahazit_news/status/1388102012949176320

Kobe Bryant · « **Reply #190 on:** April 30, 2021, 08:14:40 AM »

Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu visiting the site of the tragedy in Meron.

Dan · « **Reply #191 on:** April 30, 2021, 08:16:04 AM »

So tragic, I'm weeping reading this thread

Dan · « **Reply #192 on:** April 30, 2021, 08:17:06 AM »

Quote from: PlatinumGuy on April 30, 2021, 07:39:37 AM

אל על משתתפת בצער המשפחות השכולות באסון בהר מירון.

החברה מציעה לסייע בהבאת קרובי משפחה מדרגה ראשונה (הורים, אחים, ילדים, בני זוג) מארה"ב, אנגליה, צרפת וכל מדינה אחרת ממנה מפעילה אל על טיסות ישירות לישראל. אל על מציעה לכל משפחה עד שני כרטיסי טיסה בתשלום של מיסי הנמל בלבד. על מנת לממש את הכרטיסים יש לפנות למוקד השירות של אל על ולהציג תעודת

פטירה וצילום דרכון. ניתן להזמין כרטיס טיסה לטיסות הממריאות עד 4 למאי 2021 . לשם כך נפתח קו טלפון ייעודי במספר 03-9404040.
לתשומת לבכם, במספר טלפון זה ינתן מענה למשפחות השכולות בלבד.
המוקד זמין היום, שישי עד השעה 16:00. החל ממוצ״ש ועד חצות ובימי חול החל מ-8:00 ועד חצות.

Is this confirmed accurate?