Tragedy In Meron!

[PlatinumGuy]

https://twitter.com/c_shechter/status/1388806642209366018

@BarryLincoln

[BarryLincoln]

[Kobe Bryant]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/48-hours-after-meron-tragedy-39-year-old-man-still-missing/

[PlatinumGuy]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/48-hours-after-meron-tragedy-39-year-old-man-still-missing/

He left his phone and went to Meron already last Sunday, and was see on Shabbos after the event.

Looks like more of an estranged family situation than a missing person.

[CountValentine]

Gotcha. You can also see some 3d modeling showing how these things can happen even without any front blockages.
https://www.gkstill.com/CV/Modelling/CrowdCollapse.html

https://www.smh.com.au/world/hundreds-pilgrims-reported-killed-in-stampede-near-mecca-during-haj-pilgrimage-20150924-gjufgd.html

This has happened at numerus concerts also.
https://matadornetwork.com/nights/10-deadliest-concert-disasters-of-the-last-50-years/

Can the discussion on how this happens be split off?

[PlatinumGuy]

Here is a video where you can clearly see people dying in the pileup without any cops in the vicinity. Plenty of space in front of the pile that completely blocked everybody behind them, and passerby trying to pull people out in the exact same place cops later appear to be blocking in these videos

https://streamable.com/29z556

This is the exact place people are claiming police blocked. You can see it blocked by a pile of dying people before any police arrived.

[PlatinumGuy]

https://twitter.com/yaircherki/status/1388860124190674947

[JMHO]

Can the discussion on how this happens be split off?

Please!

We are loosing focus from the terrible tragedy and focusing on the wrong things here.

[Kobe Bryant]

Not sure why this thread is devolving into a “blame game”. This was a Gezaira on Klal Yisroel. These victims are Korbonos Tzibur. Let’s take time to unite and better ourselves, and do something in the memory of all the precious souls that were lost.

[yuneeq]

There is a video where you can clearly see people dying in the pileup without any cops in the vicinity. Plenty of space in front of the pile that completely blocked everybody behind them, and passerby trying to pull people out in the exact same place cops later appear to be blocking in these videos

@yuneeq will post the link

https://streamable.com/gam5na
https://streamable.com/29z556

[TimT]

My son works up there most years (B"H this year he was busy Thursday night ) and spoke with someone from one of the hacnossas orchim organizations who tried to look up footage on their security cameras, only to find that the wires to their cameras, as well as many others, had been cut.

Do you have a link to this ? I’ve been scouring the web since the minute this occurred & haven’t seen mention of this.

[hvaces42]

http://www.rationalistjudaism.com/2021/05/the-message-of-meron-need-to-think-big.html?fbclid=IwAR1kC7QEDQN6EG4RXH0ni-4Hp_v9VuTMSrfiNN4xxOsfAUBxl62E3MjoY_M&m=1

[yuneeq]

Can the discussion on how this happens be split off?

Good suggestion, started it here
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=124523.0

[hvaces42]

http://www.rationalistjudaism.com/2021/05/the-message-of-meron-need-to-think-big.html?fbclid=IwAR1kC7QEDQN6EG4RXH0ni-4Hp_v9VuTMSrfiNN4xxOsfAUBxl62E3MjoY_M&m=1

All I could think of is what has been said upthread. This was a disaster waiting to happen. It nearly happened to me years ago inside the mearah. I was used to going on the day of and staying inside saying  the whole tehillim and leaving the building as soon as I was finished, always before the first hadlakah was lit. That year I was in Yerushalyim for shabbos and came after shabbos. I made my way into the building and the surge just swept me along. I had to fight my way out of the building and out a side door. I have had fear of certain enclosed spaces ever since. For years after when they closed the door on the plane I would panic. I cant bring myself to watch any of the videos being posted.

[mgarfin]

Do you have a link to this ? I’ve been scouring the web since the minute this occurred & haven’t seen mention of this.

https://twitter.com/menishwartz/status/1388852249737273348

[aygart]

If there's a way to channel the dialogue in a productive way towards improving that relationship, IMO that would be a tremendous thing.

A positive step would be the police doing something to at least acknowledge their terrible track record and do a serious investigation. It will take alot to restore trust. I don't care who you are, a policeman yelling at a child "If I wasn't on duty I would slice you up" is beyond anything remotely sane. I think the police here have a innate issue, the job attracts a certain kind of people.

Maybe everyone should take their opinions about inner-city policing and use them here.

[Euclid]

Maybe everyone should take their opinions about inner-city policing and use them here.

Cognitive dissonance is strong here

[aygart]

Cognitive dissonance is strong everywhere

FTFY

[ShmuliT]

I believe those questioning this graphic have never been in a tight crowd before. When you are in a tight crowd, the force of it controls and guides you and depending on the size and density of the crowd it becomes very difficult/impossible to counter that force alone.

I've been thinking...,
From what I understand this was caused by a large crowd "calmly" exiting through a slippery bottle neck. Had there CV been something causing panic that would have lead to a mass caotic evacuation, the situation would have been a lot lot worse.

[Cocoronana]

Show the video evidence but you won’t find any.

The barricade is still there, connected at the side, clearly ripped apart under the pressure. No need for videos.