How did the Meron tragedy unfold?

[PlatinumGuy]

It seems clear as day, that the police had nothing to do with what happened at that particular spot.

That is the spot people are claiming videos and eyewitness show police. Everything else was behind that, and countless videos show zero police in the alley behind it.

There is a separate claim that the entire passageway was overcrowded because a different exit was closed by police, I can’t comment about that.

[chevron]

I want to talk about the extreme pushing.

I get it, you gotta fight to get to the tzion, the Rebbe, the bus to kever yosef etc.

But I can totally understand how people who can push like this and just totally trample everybody I have seen it happen.

I have been in dozens of cases only revealed miracles saved people from dying lo aleknu

[yesitsme]

I want to talk about the extreme pushing.

I get it, you gotta fight to get to the tzion, the Rebbe, the bus to kever yosef etc.

But I can totally understand how people who can push like this and just totally trample everybody I have seen it happen.

I have been in dozens of cases only revealed miracles saved people from dying lo aleknu

וען די ועסט עלטער וערען.....

No one put down a weight of 1000 pounds on the next guy, it was a domino effect the ones at the beginning didn't know or feel what's happening at the end

[yuneeq]

I want to talk about the extreme pushing.

I get it, you gotta fight to get to the tzion, the Rebbe, the bus to kever yosef etc.

But I can totally understand how people who can push like this and just totally trample everybody I have seen it happen.

I have been in dozens of cases only revealed miracles saved people from dying lo aleknu

Pushing is a conversation for a different time. People had no control over their feet or hands, you couldn’t push if you wanted to.

[gozalim]

could there be optimized for in/out flow, at the expense of crowding and 'events'?
(I'm thinking a variation of what happens 3 tammuz at the ohel)?

[PlatinumGuy]

could there be optimized for in/out flow, at the expense of crowding and 'events'?
(I'm thinking a variation of what happens 3 tammuz at the ohel)?

That's how it works inside the Tziyon in Miron. You push your way in, then slowly float towards the exit without much say in the matter.

[gozalim]

That's how it works inside the Tziyon in Miron. You push your way in, then slowly float towards the exit without much say in the matter.

could that be channeled into a constantly moving single file?(or multi-file)?
with one entrance and an opposite exit?

[PlatinumGuy]

could that be channeled into a constantly moving single file?(or multi-file)?
with one entrance and an opposite exit?

How do you force people to leave without the crowd pushing them? Zionist Nazi Cops tearing people away from their siddurim?

[Lurker]

How do you force people to leave without the crowd pushing them? Zionist Nazi Cops tearing people away from their siddurim?

Respected askanim urging people to say their tehillim for 2 minutes and allow someone the same opportunity. It can work, if everyone knows the rules beforehand, and it has the backing of all the Rebbes, RY, etc.

[PlatinumGuy]

https://twitter.com/orcarmi/status/1388895415517470720

Great thread about the legal battles and conservatorship over the years.

[TimT]

Respected askanim urging people to say their tehillim for 2 minutes

That line would stretch for days

[shapsam]

How do you force people to leave without the crowd pushing them? Zionist Nazi Cops tearing people away from their siddurim?

It works on erev Rosh Hashana in Uman. You'll always have a few people wanting to stay longer, but for the most part the line moves and everyone gets a few minutes at the tzion.

[Lurker]

That line would stretch for days

It works in Uman and at the Ohel.

[TimT]

It works in Uman and at the Ohel.

How many are there at the ohel ?

[aygart]

I think we can acknowledge this is from Above while being mechazek our vigilance in the future.

You don't need to place blame on people in order to use this tragedy to improve the way things have been done. We can acknowledge all the things which could have been done better. There's quite a list. Calling for people's heads isn't the answer here, and definitely not right now.

@PlatinumGuy was not pointing fingers or playing a blame game. He was discussing what caused it to happen. Brushing that away to say it was all yad hashem, which of course it is, prevents it from being rectified.

[Lurker]

How many are there at the ohel ?

Depends on the year. I honestly don't have a number. I think they say six figures.

[Lurker]

@PlatinumGuy was not pointing fingers or playing a blame game. He was discussing what caused it to happen. Brushing that away to say it was all yad hashem, which of course it is, prevents it from being rectified.

Fair. I haven't had an issue with the things he's posted. As you said, he's not pointing fingers at people. However, I do think that waiting until there is a comprehensive collection of video and first-hand accounts is the prudent thing to do. Every time a new video makes the rounds or a new eyewitness gives their story, the calculus changes and we go round the hamster wheel. I don't think rushing to do the postmortem is right.

[aygart]

Fair. I haven't had an issue with the things he's posted. As you said, he's not pointing fingers at people. However, I do think that waiting until there is a comprehensive collection of video and first-hand accounts is the prudent thing to do. Every time a new video makes the rounds or a new eyewitness gives their story, the calculus changes and we go round the hamster wheel. I don't think rushing to do the postmortem is right.

We are just a bunch of know nothings being busy bodies anyhow. It isnt like this is what will change anything.

[ltttc]

It seems clear as day, that the police had nothing to do with what happened at that particular spot.

I've heard from s/o who's bro-in-law was trapped there.  According to him, police closed the exit to stop the flow of people exiting. People were packed like sardines, it was terribly hot and began fainting...after 20 minutes they realized it was a mistake and removed the barricade. By then people had fainted and others were falling on top of them...

[ual902]

So the big question is why did the police block the exit? sorry I did not read through this whole forum.