How did the Meron tragedy unfold?

[Deal Guy]

What are they leaning on?
https://m.imgur.com/aTeioKH

You can see it here the last 15 seconds
https://twitter.com/hasidic_1/status/1388708655218966528

You can also see it on other videos but its hard to see the metal of the barricade, on one side you see hundreds of people compressed on the other side you see people/police/hatzala trying to remove it

You can clearly see that the people right in the front, would be able to leave if not for the gate.
They are leaning on the gate.
@PlatinumGuy you think the people right in front, want to stay there? They are in the front, and can easily move forward if not for the cops.
In fact, the people all the way in front, don't seem to be sweating profusely, and have air in front of their faces, and therefore don't have the urgency to knock down the fence and the cops. They feel safe, and are calmly leaning on the gate, hoping the cops open it.
See this again, and look at the front row people. Most of their upper bodies are visible and therefore it can't be that they are simply not moving because of glue or entanglement.
They are simply leaning on the gate, and having air in front, and not feeling danger, are waiting for the cops to open it.
See here.
https://m.imgur.com/aTeioKH

[Deal Guy]

You mean people made up that there was a barricade blocking when there’s clear evidence of the barricade off to the side. In reality nothing needs to be debunked, evidence needs to be presented of any barricade blocking people.

You keep on going to those videos. That is after the tragedy started and was moved.
Had the cops not closed it off, there wouldn't have been such a crazy push even if someone fell.

[Deal Guy]

fan doesn't help when people are piled up, what was the cause of the pile up? slippery metal how will a fan solve your problem?

When people are pushed up against each other, you need fans and ac.
Being slanty and wet is an additional problem, but not having air and being in a shoving match can be a huge issue, especially for people that are claustrophobic. Having air keeps them from sweating or hyperventilating.

[Live N Learn]

Animated explanation from Channel 12.
https://streamable.com/vks92e

"according to the initial investigation, all entrances and exits were blocked off, besites for this one, causing everyone to use this single narrow (and slippery) exit, which caused..."

[Live N Learn]

Multiple photos showing a gate...

[Live N Learn]

https://streamable.com/xm1r30

This guy claims he broke open the gate.
I don't know who he is...

[Live N Learn]

Every organization under the sun had their livestream cameras set up. It's reasonable to assume that during the setup of the technical infrastructure existing wiring was accidentally cut and/or spliced.

Additionally, how can one think that somehow there was was malicious intent for disabling of existing cameras when they added tons of new cameras for lag b'omer livestreams?

Conspiracy theories aren't helpful.

Code: [Select]

ביום רביעי אחרון המשטרה עברו בתוך מתחם הקבר הרשבי ומחוץ לה וחתכו את כל המצלמות שלא שייך כלל למשטרה ביניהם מצלמות של הרב שרגא שניצר ומצלמות הילולא דרשבי של הרב קופרשטוק ומצלמות של האתר הרשב בנשים והגברים.
למחרת בבוקר ביום חמישי ערב לג בעומר מנהל האתר *עו"ד מר אלי פריינד הוציא מכתב חריף לממ"ז צפון שמעון לביא איך יתכן שניתקו את המצלמות והאם להם מה להסתיר?*
האמת מתחילה לצאת לאור.
אני מבטיח להוציא את האמת בימים הקרובים. *דודי גלויברמן*

https://streamable.com/u32oc0

Right at the beginning of the video, you see the officer in the middle, passing a camera to the guy on the left, which puts it in a bag.

P.s. I don't know the source of this video...

[PlatinumGuy]

When people are pushed up against each other, you need fans and ac.

Dude. Their lungs were crushed by weight pushing on them. No lack of oxygen. You could have a fan glued to their face and nothing would've changed.

You can clearly see that the people right in the front, would be able to leave if not for the gate.
They are leaning on the gate.
@PlatinumGuy you think the people right in front, want to stay there? They are in the front, and can easily move forward if not for the cops.
In fact, the people all the way in front, don't seem to be sweating profusely, and have air in front of their faces, and therefore don't have the urgency to knock down the fence and the cops. They feel safe, and are calmly leaning on the gate, hoping the cops open it.
See this again, and look at the front row people. Most of their upper bodies are visible and therefore it can't be that they are simply not moving because of glue or entanglement.
They are simply leaning on the gate, and having air in front, and not feeling danger, are waiting for the cops to open it.
See here.
https://m.imgur.com/aTeioKH

How blind can you be? The people in front are literally piled on top of each other. The front of their face has plenty of air because there is no obstruction in front of them. They can't move because there is too much weight pinning their legs down. They are thrust forward and thus appear to be leaning forward. There is no reason for them to be sweating, in fact their bodies were slowly shutting down.

There is clearly no fence in front of them in that video.

You can see in this video very clearly a pile of people in the same place you’re talking about, with nothing at all in front of them. No police, no barricade, no crowd. Only a pile of people on top of each other on the steps blocking everybody behind them.

Again, zero police in the vicinity and the blockage is already there with people dying in the pileup.

https://streamable.com/29z556


And here is the interview with the first person who fell on those stops clearly detailing the story.

https://streamable.com/q38nqh

[PlatinumGuy]

Code: [Select]

ביום רביעי אחרון המשטרה עברו בתוך מתחם הקבר הרשבי ומחוץ לה וחתכו את כל המצלמות שלא שייך כלל למשטרה ביניהם מצלמות של הרב שרגא שניצר ומצלמות הילולא דרשבי של הרב קופרשטוק ומצלמות של האתר הרשב בנשים והגברים.
למחרת בבוקר ביום חמישי ערב לג בעומר מנהל האתר *עו"ד מר אלי פריינד הוציא מכתב חריף לממ"ז צפון שמעון לביא איך יתכן שניתקו את המצלמות והאם להם מה להסתיר?*
האמת מתחילה לצאת לאור.
אני מבטיח להוציא את האמת בימים הקרובים. *דודי גלויברמן*

https://streamable.com/u32oc0

Right at the beginning of the video, you see the officer in the middle, passing a camera to the guy on the left, which puts it in a bag.

P.s. I don't know the source of this video...

The guy on the ladder isn't a policeman, and the video doesn't show anybody removing any camera.

[Happyguy]

@PlatinumGuy did you write this?

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/305452

[yuneeq]

The guy on the ladder isn't a policeman, and the video doesn't show anybody removing any camera.

Indeed. The camera is actually in the top right corner nowhere close to where that person is. But ackshully if the police didn’t yet release any videos of people dying there must not be any video evidence.

[PlatinumGuy]

@PlatinumGuy did you write this?

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/305452

No, didn’t even read it

[PlatinumGuy]

The neftarim are all buried. IMHO the time for introspection is now, before emotions are thawed.

It’s clear as day that this was a disaster waiting to happen and a miracle it didn’t happen until now. The issue isn’t the match that lit the fuse, but the powder keg waiting to explode.

It’s also very obvious the Israeli government and police are powerless to prevent an event like this from occurring even if they would’ve wanted to stop it.

The problem that needs to be rectified is the entire frum/charedi culture & mindset that refuses to heed to safety directives. The exact same attitude that led to reckless mass Covid gatherings, parroted by many posters here who convinced themselves communities from Lakewood to Crown Heights know better than Fauci and prevailing medical opinions, continuously bullied the Israeli state institutions into allowing an incredibly dangerous event.

We all know Meron was just as dangerous every year as it was this year, and that fact that we saw it happen for 20+ years without incident doesn’t change that. The same applies to mass weddings in Covid. They are dangerous even when most of the time they pass without incident.

This isn’t on any specific person or body, it’s on all of us.

[Jellybelly]

Heads up everyone, looks like we’re heading down a dangerous path here, as @PlatinumGuy gave us the green light to start pointing blame .  Let’s try to make sure it’s all letoeles.

[pbf]

The neftarim are all buried. IMHO the time for introspection is now, before emotions are thawed.

It’s clear as day that this was a disaster waiting to happen and a miracle it didn’t happen until now. The issue isn’t the match that lit the fuse, but the powder keg waiting to explode.

It’s also very obvious the Israeli government and police are powerless to prevent an event like this from occurring even if they would’ve wanted to stop it.

The problem that needs to be rectified is the entire frum/charedi culture & mindset that refuses to heed to safety directives. The exact same attitude that led to reckless mass Covid gatherings, parroted by many posters here who convinced themselves communities from Lakewood to Crown Heights know better than Fauci and prevailing medical opinions, continuously bullied the Israeli state institutions into allowing an incredibly dangerous event.

We all know Meron was just as dangerous every year as it was this year, and that fact that we saw it happen for 20+ years without incident doesn’t change that. The same applies to mass weddings in Covid. They are dangerous even when most of the time they pass without incident.

This isn’t on any specific person or body, it’s on all of us.

Please stop. Just stop

[aygart]

Heads up everyone, looks like we’re heading down a dangerous path here, as @PlatinumGuy gave us the green light to start pointing blame .  Let’s try to make sure it’s all letoeles.

Please stop. Just stop

It is only okay if it is targeting the police?

[pbf]

It is only okay if it is targeting the police?

No. But stop bringing COVID into this, which will inevitably rile people up and cause arguments which is completely inappropriate right now.

[CountValentine]

It is only okay if it is targeting the police?

Why is those targeting the police now are some of the same induvials that defend the police every time a black man is killed?
That is a rhetorical question in case you can't tell.

Time to move this thread JS?

[Euclid]

Why is those targeting the police now are some of the same induvials that defend the police every time a black man is killed?
That is a rhetorical question in case you can't tell.

Time to move this thread JS?

He already alluded to this earlier

[Afrages6]

No. But stop bringing COVID into this, which will inevitably rile people up and cause arguments which is completely inappropriate right now.

That was the idea.