Author Topic: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?  (Read 53736 times)

Offline yesitsme

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #280 on: May 07, 2021, 12:10:22 AM »

Offline S209

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #281 on: May 07, 2021, 12:24:37 AM »
https://www.bhol.co.il/news/1216056
This really isn’t debatable anymore, there are thousands of pictures and videos clearly documenting exactly what happened. Initially there were questions. It’s not up for debate anymore.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #282 on: May 07, 2021, 05:48:56 AM »
Um, are you a licensed medical professional?
A regular EMT can't do anything besides CPR. However, a EMTP with full equipment could indeed attempt and in some cases successfully resuscitate victims even in  traumatic arrest secondary to pneumothorax.

ETA
I am in no way saying that they didn't do their best. I am sure they did their best under these circumstances.
Again, there is nothing that can be done for people with lungs crushed flat.

You sound like the guy who thought another fan would've saved them...
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline efflpetzel

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #283 on: May 07, 2021, 12:25:13 PM »
So how were some people who had no pulse or heartbeat revived after CPR?

Offline Lurker

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #284 on: May 07, 2021, 12:32:53 PM »
So how were some people who had no pulse or heartbeat revived after CPR?

What does that have to do with crushed lungs?
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline VacationLover

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #285 on: May 07, 2021, 12:35:05 PM »
I think this topic is too sensitive to discuss at this time.

But in short, there is a significant difference between hypoxia and pneumothorax.

Offline VacationLover

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #286 on: May 07, 2021, 12:37:31 PM »
letter from United Hatzolah from 2015

Offline yzj

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #287 on: May 07, 2021, 01:16:57 PM »
I think this topic is too sensitive to discuss at this time.

But in short, there is a significant difference between hypoxia and pneumothorax.
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/30266461.pdf

Offline yesitsme

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #288 on: May 07, 2021, 01:41:12 PM »


["-"]

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #289 on: May 07, 2021, 02:38:33 PM »

-1

I have no clue why this thread is even alive at this point.

It was a terrible tragedy. Unfortunately, it could have been foreseen and proper precautions weren't taken. There was no malice. Was there negligence? Definitely!

Is there any point in finding who to blame and point fingers? IMHO, No!

If someone who currently has any power or say over Meron is willing to acknowledge the past error and accept responsibility for the future by engaging crowd control/crowd management professionals and take necessary steps to make sure it's as safe as could be while maintaining the crowd size, that should be done. Otherwise, the state is likely to step in.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline yzj

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #290 on: May 07, 2021, 04:32:28 PM »
It’s not just Meron. There are other events, Levayas, etc. where precautions can be implemented to make the necessary hishtadlus al pi Derech hateva based on what is learned from the Meron tragedy. Just the pictures of the crowd by the Eidah kinnus following the Meron tragedy are concerning.


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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #291 on: May 07, 2021, 04:36:19 PM »
It’s not just Meron. There are other events, Levayas, etc. where precautions can be implemented to make the necessary hishtadlus al pi Derech hateva based on what is learned from the Meron tragedy. Just the pictures of the crowd by the Eidah kinnus following the Meron tragedy are concerning.


I wonder if it looks the same as you get closer in.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yzj

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #292 on: May 07, 2021, 04:55:09 PM »
I wonder if it looks the same as you get closer in.
Some closeups look less crowded but just the look of the crowd on the steps in the middle photo is really not what you want to see






Offline justaregularguy

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #293 on: May 07, 2021, 05:51:13 PM »
I feel dumb coming into this conversation wo having read any of the previous pages 😒
..but! Is maybe these crowds not so much the concern being as they’re not ‘locked in’ place- the edges of the crowd can easily expand to open space. As opposed to meron, where the crush was multiplied bc one end couldn’t go anywhere?
nothings impossible- the word itself says Im possible

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #294 on: May 07, 2021, 05:58:17 PM »
Some closeups look less crowded but just the look of the crowd on the steps in the middle photo is really not what you want to see






These photos do not show anything close to a crowding where people cannot control their movement.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline justaregularguy

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #295 on: May 07, 2021, 06:00:36 PM »
These photos do not show anything close to a crowding where people cannot control their movement.
I feel dumb coming into this conversation wo having read any of the previous pages 😒
..but! Is maybe these crowds not so much the concern being as they’re not ‘locked in’ place- the edges of the crowd can easily expand to open space. As opposed to meron, where the crush was multiplied bc one end couldn’t go anywhere?
nothings impossible- the word itself says Im possible

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #296 on: May 07, 2021, 06:02:44 PM »


Not talking about the edges. Every person in this photo is free to turn around 360 degrees. They're even holding something (maybe a tehillim).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline yzj

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #297 on: May 07, 2021, 06:09:07 PM »
True they have wiggle room but picture the crowd trying to navigate the steps to enter or exit the balcony at once. I can see that presenting a problem.

Offline Abebee

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #298 on: May 07, 2021, 07:38:00 PM »
True they have wiggle room but picture the crowd trying to navigate the steps to enter or exit the balcony at once. I can see that presenting a problem.
For those that were in meron might be able to understand this better. The music is blaring, its midnight your sweaty and when you make the decisions you want to leave you just follow the crowd out. If 20 people are screaming stop, you Dont even hear them since your on such a high energy level. When thousands gather to daven/levayah its a whole different atmosphere. If god forbid someone tripped in the photo you pointed out, it would be really east to stop the flow.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #299 on: May 08, 2021, 04:04:53 PM »
Multiple people were crushed to death at R' Vozner's levaya in Beni Brak a few years ago...
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים