Author Topic: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?  (Read 56253 times)

Offline yesitsme

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #300 on: May 08, 2021, 10:43:48 PM »
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Offline S209

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #301 on: May 08, 2021, 10:47:17 PM »
Multiple people were crushed to death at R' Vozner's levaya in Beni Brak a few years ago...
I believe another one as well (R’ Greineman perhaps?)
Quote from: YitzyS
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Offline VacationLover

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #302 on: May 08, 2021, 11:08:11 PM »
Multiple people were crushed to death at R' Vozner's levaya in Beni Brak a few years ago...
1) that also happened on/near a staircase
2) part of the event was the actual walking (following the לויה). As apposed to an event in which the subject is a gathering to listen to speeches.

Offline yerushabubby

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #303 on: May 08, 2021, 11:37:29 PM »
True they have wiggle room but picture the crowd trying to navigate the steps to enter or exit the balcony at once. I can see that presenting a problem.

That isn't a balcony - it is a staircase leading from the street into the courtyard of the Eida Chareidis building.  My husband and sons were there, and my husband was able to get from right near the building out to the street to move his parked car without too much difficulty.

Offline LNS

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #304 on: May 09, 2021, 12:22:56 AM »
True they have wiggle room but picture the crowd trying to navigate the steps to enter or exit the balcony at once. I can see that presenting a problem.

keep in mind that this is not a narrow downhill ramp with multiple turns, steps and rails

Offline yzj

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #305 on: May 09, 2021, 12:31:13 AM »
We are not talking about the same level of danger. But I would think there is still room for concern. As others have pointed out the pictures look worse than what is taking place on the ground so perhaps some of that concern is indeed misplaced. However as the levayas mentioned up thread show Meron is definitely not the only area of concern.

Offline EliJelly

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #306 on: May 09, 2021, 12:59:43 AM »

Online ExGingi

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #307 on: May 09, 2021, 01:34:23 PM »
I don't know what's their source, but Chabad.info is showing artist renditions of plans they say were submitted about a decade ago:

https://chabad.info/in-focus/674272/

ETA: seems like this is the source: https://hm-news.co.il/153929/





« Last Edit: May 09, 2021, 03:06:22 PM by ExGingi »
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Offline yelped

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #308 on: May 09, 2021, 01:37:58 PM »
Looks really nice, and obviously a huge improvement on safety and comfort.

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #309 on: May 09, 2021, 01:39:41 PM »
Looks really nice, and obviously a huge improvement on safety and comfort.

If only....
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline yfr bachur

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #310 on: May 10, 2021, 06:27:39 AM »
I spent this past Shabbos in Meron. Here are my thoughts and observations

On Friday I went to the steps and said Sefer Tehilim as a zechus for the neshamos of the niftarim. It's not something I've really done before, so it took quite a while. While I was there, many, many people came to see where the tragedy happened. I heard 10-12 different versions of what happened, where exactly the people fell, where there was or wasn't a machsom...different versions even from people who claimed to be there. I was a little shocked how just one week later (still within the shiva!) it was so much a tourist attraction, and not a place of teffila. Some of the women said tehillim, but of the men...while I was there only one person said "Hey, it's still during the shiva lets do something for their zechus". Even on Shabbos, Chilonim came to view the place of the "Ason", parking outside the gates and walking up.

After I was done Tehillim, I went to examine the scene. I, and we all, have the benefit of hindsight, however at least some of what I noticed should have raised some attention ahead of time.
(Background: The path leads from the area behind the Tzion of Rashbi, from the exits, along the side to return to the entrance plaza. The back plaza was developed by the Toldos Aharon Chassidus to use for their hadlakos. As far as I could tell, TA does not have historical "Chazakos" to the area (unlike the various hekdeshim within the tzion) rather found and unused area and developed it for their own use. It seems that the path was built/planned by a TA chassid called R' Dov)
The ramp is about 10-12 feet wide. Before the events of Lag Baomer, there was a metal hand rail down the middle, to divide between those going up and those going down. Towards the bottom of the ramp, the down path narrows due to the right wall moving in to the left. Though you cant easily tell from the picture it loses a significant percentage of its width. This could lead to an additional increase in crowd pressure as it proceeds down the ramp.
Describing the metal surface of the ramp as "slippery" does not do it justice. I had no one around me, was wearing rubber soled shoes that provide good traction in other situations (Hush Puppies Rainmakers, if you must know) and I was unable to stand without slipping down the ramp. The slippiest area was in the area where the path narrows...
Immediately at the end of the ramp (and end of the wall on right) steps begin on the right side. It's immediate, the right most person will have his feet on the steps just as the pressure from the wall stops... The steps are steep, unfinished and uneven. At the bottom of the steps is a short landing, with narrow steps leading down to the right, (in the direction of the TAY hadlaka area) and the main path leading to the left and return to the entrance plaza. Just a few years ago, this was an unroofed path, with open area surrounding it. However, the Hachnasas Orchim located under the shteibelach built a platform over the path and the surrounding area, leading to the cramped tunnel look seen in the pictures of the event.

There were other dangerous places I noticed. The Shvil Hakohanim in the area of TAY, was missing sections of fencing that should be protecting a 20 or so foot drop...

(I'm havimg trouble attacing the pictures I took, It seems that my filter may be blocking it, if anyone can help me post them I'd appriciate it.)

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #311 on: May 10, 2021, 07:31:45 AM »
1) that also happened on/near a staircase
2) part of the event was the actual walking (following the לויה). As apposed to an event in which the subject is a gathering to listen to speeches.
It was also on a Tuesday, this is on a Monday.

This careless attitude is exactly why our community keeps on endangering itself.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline ae123

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #312 on: May 12, 2021, 06:25:23 PM »
https://streamable.com/1i9ry1
How can I access all the Meron videos on streamable.com?
Thanks.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #313 on: May 12, 2021, 06:32:34 PM »
How can I access all the Meron videos on streamable.com?
Thanks.

Streamable is just a simple video hosting site and not like youtube or social media. You can search this thread for streamable and it'll pull up whatever was shared here.
Visibly Jewish

Offline ae123

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #314 on: May 12, 2021, 08:30:18 PM »
Streamable is just a simple video hosting site and not like youtube or social media. You can search this thread for streamable and it'll pull up whatever was shared here.
Thank you.

Offline ChapsTheMatzav

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #315 on: May 13, 2021, 04:44:20 PM »
How can I access all the Meron videos on streamable.com?
Thanks.
See this.
Whether you think you can or you think you cannot, you're right.

Offline ae123

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #316 on: May 13, 2021, 06:50:10 PM »
See this.
I agree with the sentiment - very much, actually.
But there may be other personal reasons why someone may need to see the videos.

Offline ChapsTheMatzav

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #317 on: May 14, 2021, 12:35:27 AM »
I agree with the sentiment - very much, actually.
But there may be other personal reasons why someone may need to see the videos.
Such as?
Whether you think you can or you think you cannot, you're right.

Offline ae123

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #318 on: May 14, 2021, 02:49:17 PM »
Such as?
Closure & legal issues, to name just two.

Offline ChapsTheMatzav

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Re: How did the Meron tragedy unfold?
« Reply #319 on: May 16, 2021, 12:57:58 AM »
Closure & legal issues, to name just two.
Its closure to watch people being crushed?
Leave the video watching to the lawyers...
Whether you think you can or you think you cannot, you're right.