Which Overcrowded Spaces Need To Be Fixed?

[Dan]

As a bochur in 770 there were certainly times during Tishrei when I felt like I was getting carried with the crowd without any control or had to push back to stop from getting crushed.

Certainly claustrophobic, though at the time I didn't feel in mortal peril. Then again, others felt the same way about Meron in the past. And from what I understand, nothing was particularly different or more crowded than in the past.

I felt the same way at the Kotel on Shavuos at netz 2 years ago.

Maybe in this post-Meron world we need to examine, fix, or enforce capacity limits on other crowded spaces to avoid a repeat of such a tragedy?

Where have you felt like it could be too crowded for safety?

[Euclid]

Ask Yogi Berra

[Euclid]

Tishim

[yuneeq]

Personally can only remember Meron as an overcrowded event, didn't have any issues by the Siyum Hashas or other events I can think of. There was also this chol hamoed in a trampoline park that became way overcrowded, cops removed everyone and it was definitely the right move. Very dangerous even if it didn't get as dense as other situations.

[S209]

As a bochur in 770 there were certainly times during Tishrei when I felt like I was getting carried with the crowd without any control or had to push back to stop from getting crushed.

Certainly claustrophobic, though at the time I didn't feel in mortal peril. Then again, others felt the same way about Meron in the past. And from what I understand, nothing was particularly different or more crowded than in the past.

I felt the same way at the Kotel on Shavuos at netz 2 years ago.

Maybe in this post-Meron world we need to examine, fix, or enforce capacity limits on other crowded spaces to avoid a repeat of such a tragedy?

Where have you felt like it could be too crowded for safety?

Honestly Meron was a unique experience for me (same feeling both times I was there). Never had that feeling of absolutely zero control over where I was heading like I did there. A friend I spoke to Thursday night told me he vividly remembers me saying when we were there the second time “If we don’t die here, somebody else will.”

[JMHO]

Airplanes

[YesThatsMe]

The Hakafos in Rodney St in the late 90's & early 00's (before the spilt) were more crowded than Meron IMO (I was in Meron 5 times in the past 8 years)

[Kobe Bryant]

Meron on Lag Baomer and Birkas Hchama by the Kotel

[CountValentine]

First it was reported that the bleachers collapsed. As I watch the bleaches filled to the max and jumping up and down is something to be addressed to avoid another tragedy.

[yesitsme]

Tishim

Karlin announced 2 changes, 1) bochurim should be on the top rows of the bleachers, 2) bochurim should go last by lchaim.

For 2 reasons 1)derech eretz, 2) they are usually the ones letting others feel their weight

[Yehuda57]

First it was reported that the bleachers collapsed. As I watch the bleaches filled to the max and jumping up and down is something to be addressed to avoid another tragedy.

Bleachers terrify me. Even at something as (relatively) small as the annual Kinus picture, I am terrified every time I see it. Who takes achrayus on them being able to hold hundreds, or thousands of people?

[Yef]

When they first said it was bleachers, I didn’t believe it. The people making the bleachers know exactly what’s going to happen on them. There is no way they would have been built w/o the ability to hold up the crowd.

[JlmBoi]

Bleachers terrify me. Even at something as (relatively) small as the annual Kinus picture, I am terrified every time I see it. Who takes achrayus on them being able to hold hundreds, or thousands of people?

A big chasidus I was involved with in the past (generally not viewed as one of the woker ones) had engineers inspect these set ups before events. I would be very surprised if there was no engineer signing off on the bleachers in Meron. What happened needed a crowd control expert to prevent it, not a structural integrity engineer.

[dasmo801]

As a bochur in 770 there were certainly times during Tishrei when I felt like I was getting carried with the crowd without any control or had to push back to stop from getting crushed.

Certainly claustrophobic, though at the time I didn't feel in mortal peril. Then again, others felt the same way about Meron in the past. And from what I understand, nothing was particularly different or more crowded than in the past.

I felt the same way at the Kotel on Shavuos at netz 2 years ago.

Maybe in this post-Meron world we need to examine, fix, or enforce capacity limits on other crowded spaces to avoid a repeat of such a tragedy?

Where have you felt like it could be too crowded for safety?

I would hope that this tragedy will create some awareness on the individual level. Don't assume that if a venue is open, it must be safe. So many people have mentioned how they felt a total loss of control in previous years yet many of same people went back to the same place year after year. If you find yourself heading into a situation that doesn't feel right, trust your instincts. (Obviously advise that is of no help once a person is already swept up in the crowd.)

[PlatinumGuy]

Shavous at the Kotel.

This year it’s an even bigger problem because of tensions with Arabs in Shaar Shechem.

My guess is there will be a cap of 10-20k people and the end result will be that only people for the closer neighborhoods will come, those who live further away won’t make the walk for fear of being turned away at the gates to the old city

[PlatinumGuy]

. The people making the bleachers know exactly what’s going to happen on them. There is no way they would have been built w/o the ability to hold up the crowd.

LOL

See Versailles wedding hall in Jlem that collapsed.

The news is reporting the bleachers in Meron had several multiples of the amount of people they were certified to hold.

[Yef]

There would have been direct blame on the builders of the bleachers. Their picture would be on the front page of every newspaper right now. There is no way that they would have let it happen,even with “extra people” on them

[PlatinumGuy]

There would have been direct blame on the builders of the bleachers. Their picture would be on the front page of every newspaper right now. There is no way that they would have let it happen,even with “extra people” on them

As happened in Versailles. The engineers all served prison time.

[EliJelly]

Every other major chassidish event or levaye. We love to be cramped together like sardines

[shmooz]

See today's daf, yuma 21, 'tzefufim' in the mikdash means lifted up from the crowd, as in floating, with no control.