War in Israel

[Yehuda57]

You sure about that? Are saying some and maybe many members here don't equate criticism of Israel as anti-Israel or anti-Semitic?

We went through a 50 page discussion on this already. If your criticism of Israel is not based on actual policies or actions, but on double standards - for instance, you believe sanctions are inherently evil and not a moral course of action for any country except the lone Jewish state, yes, you are an anti-Semite.

[CountValentine]

We went through a 50 page discussion on this already. If your criticism of Israel is not based on actual policies or actions, but on double standards - for instance, you believe sanctions are inherently evil and not a moral course of action for any country except the lone Jewish state, yes, you are an anti-Semite.

That is not what I asked.

[Yehuda57]

That is not what I asked.

I'm saying that most often the criticism of Israel is at best a double standard, and usually far worse, and thus is deemed "anti-Israel" or "anti-Semitic" by forum members.

[CountValentine]

I'm saying that most often the criticism of Israel is at best a double standard, and usually far worse, and thus is deemed "anti-Israel" or "anti-Semitic" by forum members.

I agree with the last part.

So you are saying if some says silent when other countries do something that is a double standard?
Is it a double standard when DDF is silent on non-Jewish tragedies but vocal on Jewish tragedies?

[EliJelly]

I agree with the last part.

So you are saying if some says silent when other countries do something that is a double standard?
Is it a double standard when DDF is silent on non-Jewish tragedies but vocal on Jewish tragedies?

Analogies isn't really your thing, is it?

[CountValentine]

Analogies isn't really your thing, is it?

You mean when they prove my point? 

[aygart]

I agree with the last part.

So you are saying if some says silent when other countries do something that is a double standard?
Is it a double standard when DDF is silent on non-Jewish tragedies but vocal on Jewish tragedies?

I think that for Tlaib and Omar to speak up exclusively when Palestinians are victims makes sense due to their feelings of connection and that would be a good analogy to the extent they also call out other cases where arabs/muslims are victims. For others to call out Israel and not others would be indicative of bias.

[EliJelly]

You mean when they prove my point? 

When one doesn't excel in doing analogies he sees his point proven everywhere.

[CountValentine]

I think that for Tlaib and Omar to speak up exclusively when Palestinians are victims makes sense due to their feelings of connection and that would be a good analogy to the extent they also call out other cases where arabs/muslims are victims. For others to call out Israel and not others would be indicative of bias.

Sometimes people just don't care, don't have a connection or as simple as not in the news.

[Jellybelly]

No one disagrees. You can. But it just so happens that the people most vocal about that the fact that they are not anti-semitic, but only anti Israel, or anti Zionist, can't help but also be anti semites

The one exception to that would be NK

[CountValentine]

When one doesn't excel in doing analogies he sees his point proven everywhere.

I guess showing someone doesn't speak up doesn't mean they don't care proves nothing. 

[CountValentine]

The one exception to that would be NK

We staring on North Korea again?

[aygart]

Sometimes people just don't care, don't have a connection or as simple as not in the news.

If the news is selective then it is biased. The viewer may not realize that. SOmeone who randomly only cares about what Israel does wrong and nobody else is an anti-semite.

[PlatinumGuy]

You sure about that? Are saying some and maybe many members here don't equate criticism of Israel as anti-Israel or anti-Semitic?

I would imagine there are plenty of members here who believe Madoff's prosecutors were anti-Semitic and Blacks who think all cops are racist.

The double standard line is subjective and impossible to define so inevitably people from opposite sides will see it differently.

In this case part of the issue is that many people on the Jewish side never contemplated the Arab perspective in the first place and are all but unaware of their suffering, so any criticism of Israel is automatically interpreted as pure preconceived hatred. It's a post-truth era where people can consume information solely from fringe voices entirely detached from reality and it is easier than ever to live in whichever bubble is most comforting.

SOmeone who randomly only cares about what Israel does wrong and nobody else is an anti-semite.

True, but there are also objective reasons to hold Israel to a higher standard than Palestinians.

[CountValentine]

SOmeone who randomly only cares about what Israel does wrong and nobody else is an anti-semite.

Israel/Palestine is in the news. Picking a side does not make them anti-Semitic.
That is like saying supporting Trump makes you a racist. @EliJelly   

[PlatinumGuy]

the people most vocal about that the fact that they are not anti-semitic, but only anti Israel, or anti Zionist, can't help but also be anti semites

What they can't help is the label being attached to them unfairly.

For example, she is on record as saying that sanctions against other countries are wrong and should NEVER be done. Except for one country. You'll never guess which is the only country in the world she believes should be sanctioned.

First Google result for 'ilhan Omar sanctions' is:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/3/2/ilhan-omar-unveils-bill-to-sanction-mbs-for-khashoggis-murder

So far, only one of the two of you is on record (that I know of) of pushing unfounded hate. As they say, ׳כל הפוסל במומו הוא פוסל׳

[Jellybelly]

I would imagine there are plenty of members here who believe Madoff's prosecutors were anti-Semitic and Blacks who think all cops are racist.

The double standard line is subjective and impossible to define so inevitably people from opposite sides will see it differently.

In this case part of the issue is that many people on the Jewish side never contemplated the Arab perspective in the first place and are all but unaware of their suffering, so any criticism of Israel is automatically interpreted as pure preconceived hatred. It's a post-truth era where people can consume information solely from fringe voices entirely detached from reality and it is easier than ever to live in whichever bubble is most comforting.
True, but there are also objective reasons to hold Israel to a higher standard than Palestinians.

Thanq you @PlatinumGuy for finally mentioning it

We should all try to qommiserate with the Palestinians

In solidarity with them, I have started putting Q’s in random post

[aygart]

Israel/Palestine is in the news. Picking a side does not make them anti-Semitic.
That is like saying supporting Trump makes you a racist. @EliJelly   

Not sure why you chose to reply this to the second half of what I wrote and delete the part where I wrote about the news and its viewers

[aygart]

True, but there are also objective reasons to hold Israel to a higher standard than Palestinians.

Are they the only ones who are included in

nobody else

?

[Yehuda57]

I agree with the last part.

So you are saying if some says silent when other countries do something that is a double standard?
Is it a double standard when DDF is silent on non-Jewish tragedies but vocal on Jewish tragedies?

Firstly, tragedies /= injustice. There's definitely no double standard there - it's about how personally something affects you.

But assuming you meant to compare injustices:

An individual need not speak out against every single injustice. It's not necessarily a double standard if you choose to focus on certain issues. However, if you only care about that issue when it's done in a certain way, that reveals the double standard. For instance, if a forum member gets mad about a Palestinian attacking a Jew in Times Square, but excuses a White Supremacist beating up a Jew in Virginia, that would reveal a double standard. 

For politicians who enact policy, it is trickier. You can't expect them to speak up on EVERY issue, but they need to be far more vocal and clear about their policies. When hundreds of thousands of civilians are killed within driving distance to Gaza with chemical weapons are used to wipe out thousands, and not a single word is said by a politician who criticizes Israel and calls them out for crimes against humanity for defensive strikes - you bet that's a double standard. Or if someone is fighting for Palestinian rights only when they are trampled on by Israel, but ignores when Egypt, Jordan, or Palestinian leadership does the same.