Author Topic: War in Israel  (Read 154918 times)

Online EliJelly

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #1720 on: June 02, 2021, 10:52:26 AM »
Iran calls Israel the little Satan and the US the Big Satan for example.
That is likely according to body size. Iran for one sure hates Israel more. But as pointed out with Al Qaida, ISIS etc. They are in war with the US more than with Israel. And the worldwide radical Islamic terror against France, Belgium and other European countries is a religious war against the western world and nothing related to Israel either.

Online EliJelly

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #1721 on: June 02, 2021, 10:54:10 AM »
Very simple rhetorical question. When the people of Gaza see billions of US dollars going for the bombs dropped on them you don't think that fuels hate towards the US?
The Iron Dome is a missile defensive system.

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #1722 on: June 02, 2021, 10:56:22 AM »
The Iron Dome is a missile defensive system.
Guess you haven't heard of JDAM's?
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #1723 on: June 02, 2021, 10:56:58 AM »
Very simple rhetorical question. When the people of Gaza see billions of US dollars going for the bombs dropped on them you don't think that fuels hate towards the US?

Why do you not see Israelis chanting "death to the EU" (or even America) when they see billions being used to fund terror against them? I honestly don't think this plays much of a role in fueling the hate of average citizens.

Online EliJelly

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #1724 on: June 02, 2021, 10:57:55 AM »
Guess you haven't heard of JDAM's?
Is that sponsored by the US? I'm not aware

Offline Lurker

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #1725 on: June 02, 2021, 10:58:25 AM »
Very simple rhetorical question. When the people of Gaza see billions of US dollars going for the bombs dropped on them you don't think that fuels hate towards the US?

The people of Gaza hating us costs us nothing. They produce nothing. We have nothing to gain by them not hating us.
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Offline aygart

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #1726 on: June 02, 2021, 10:59:53 AM »
Very simple rhetorical question. When the people of Gaza see billions of US dollars going for the bombs dropped on them you don't think that fuels hate towards the US?
Of course it does, but why are you using this subset as a proxy for other Arabs?
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #1727 on: June 02, 2021, 11:01:03 AM »
Why do you not see Israelis chanting "death to the EU" (or even America) when they see billions being used to fund terror against them? I honestly don't think this plays much of a role in fueling the hate of average citizens.
The US does not give money to terrorist organizations. If Israel believes we are funding terror originations against them them let them say publicly. Then watch where the "partnership" goes. 
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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #1728 on: June 02, 2021, 11:04:47 AM »
Of course it does, but why are you using this subset as a proxy for other Arabs?
If an Arab hates Israel then anyone that supports Israel is also going to be hated besides the hate already directed at them.

Again this is the price we pay for supporting an allied and a democracy. We accept that but lets not pretend it is not happening. 
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Offline aygart

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #1729 on: June 02, 2021, 11:06:35 AM »
The US does not give money to terrorist organizations. If Israel believes we are funding terror originations against them them let them say publicly. Then watch where the "partnership" goes.
There are a number of territory organizations we supported when it advanced our interests. An example is the taliban
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #1730 on: June 02, 2021, 11:09:12 AM »
Lets wrap this up. You want to ask for more money then do it in private so you don't seem ungrateful.
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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #1731 on: June 02, 2021, 11:09:32 AM »
You suggested the hate towards us was because of our values. They don't agree with China/Russia values either. Where is the chants death to them?

The US is The Great Imperialist Devil. Those other countries aren't. They are a much smaller threat to radical Islam than the US. You don't dispute that, so I'm not sure why you expect equal treatment.

If you are going to make these claims it is time for you back them up.

There's this:
https://il.usembassy.gov/our-relationship/policy-history/fact-sheet-u-s-israel-economic-relationship/
Quote
The Massachusetts Example
The New England-Israel Business Council released a study that shows that Israeli-founded businesses have generated about 9,000 jobs in Massachusetts alone, and indirectly support an additional 18,000.
These companies represent nearly four percent of the state’s GDP. And that is just one state.

And this:
http://www.thetower.org/article/israel-gives-much-more-to-the-u-s-economy-than-you-imagined/

It's pretty easy to Google. Keep in mind that most of the articles and data are focused on the positive gains, and not what we'd lose if those benefits went to our rivals. If the tech went to China or Russia, for example, US companies could possibly lose significant market share and have their growth slowed tremendously as a result. The overall impact in jobs and taxes dwarfs what we give them.

ETA: This is just economically. There's no way for a civilian to quantify military and intelligence benefits.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2021, 11:13:52 AM by Lurker »
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Offline avromie7

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #1732 on: June 02, 2021, 11:09:59 AM »
If an Arab hates Israel then anyone that supports Israel is also going to be hated besides the hate already directed at them.

Again this is the price we pay for supporting an allied and a democracy. We accept that but lets not pretend it is not happening.
They hate western society. If Israel didn't exist they would hate the US just as much and focus all their efforts on destroying the US.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #1733 on: June 02, 2021, 11:14:50 AM »
The US does not give money to terrorist organizations.

LOL, this is just simply not true. Aside from the Israel conversation, where they have funded Hamas controlled Gaza and other organizations which are either terrorist, fund terrorists, or have terrorist arms within the organization, the US has funded a whole bunch of terrorist guerrilla forces to take down regimes they didn't like and has funded terrorist regimes.

Offline Lurker

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #1734 on: June 02, 2021, 11:25:24 AM »
Lets wrap this up. You want to ask for more money then do it in private so you don't seem ungrateful.

Maybe they were asked to make the request publicly so that it wouldn't look like we were funneling money under the table. There may be a number of reasons it was done the way it was. In politics and diplomacy, there's always much more going on than what you see on the surface.
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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #1735 on: June 02, 2021, 11:40:07 AM »
There's this:
https://il.usembassy.gov/our-relationship/policy-history/fact-sheet-u-s-israel-economic-relationship/
That is called trade relations and has not nothing to do with what we get for our aid. We have the same thing with Canada and other countries with no aid given.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #1736 on: June 02, 2021, 11:45:58 AM »
That is called trade relations and has not nothing to do with what we get for our aid. We have the same thing with Canada and other countries with no aid given.

If we don't help Israel defend themselves, there's no one to do trade with. Consider the aid a cost of doing business. Our net benefit is still greater once you add that cost into the equation.
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Offline aygart

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Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #1738 on: June 02, 2021, 01:06:30 PM »
If we don't help Israel defend themselves, there's no one to do trade with. Consider the aid a cost of doing business. Our net benefit is still greater once you add that cost into the equation.
That brings me to the next "rhetorical" question.  :)
If US/Israel severed all ties (not going to happen, ever) financially and militarily who would it hurt the most?
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Offline Lurker

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #1739 on: June 02, 2021, 01:11:40 PM »
That brings me to the next "rhetorical" question.  :)
If US/Israel severed all ties (not going to happen, ever) financially and militarily who would it hurt the most?

I won't answer the "rhetorical" part of your question. I think your premise is off, though. If my business is dependent on a relationship with a large corporation with deep pockets, I need them more than they need me. That doesn't mean they don't make more from relationship than I do.
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