Author Topic: War in Israel  (Read 159179 times)

Offline Lurker

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #400 on: May 11, 2021, 05:48:12 PM »
That's why it's time for Israel to ignore these people who pretend to care about Israel, but really couldn't care less if it was destroyed (and actively engage in actions that weaken Israel (EU and others) and do what needs to be done.

Easier said than done.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #401 on: May 11, 2021, 05:49:18 PM »
Democracy isn't a thing in Gaza many cultures, the Arab culture being one of them.

FTFY
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Offline Lurker

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #402 on: May 11, 2021, 05:50:53 PM »
FTFY

Is what it is, but it still makes it harder to blame the housewives or shopkeepers of Gaza for Hamas being in charge.
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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #403 on: May 11, 2021, 05:52:09 PM »
BREAKING UPDATE: Prime Minister Netanyahu and Defense Minister Benny Gantz have just ordered a massive contingency of Border Police battalions to the city of Lod, where Palestinian terrorists have overtaken parts of the city, destroying synagogues, Jewish-owned stores and dozens vehicles.

Lod Mayor Yair Revivo says he’s asked the prime minister to declare a state of emergency in the city. He calls for the military to be deployed in the city, saying “this is too big for police.”

“This is Kristallnacht in Lod,” he says.

Moving ספרי תורה for fear of fires...



HT: Amit Segal via Telegram
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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #404 on: May 11, 2021, 05:54:18 PM »
Is what it is, but it still makes it harder to blame the housewives or shopkeepers of Gaza for Hamas being in charge.

Hamas were actually elected in Gaza. They were viewed as less corrupt that Fatah which gave them a landslide win (and which is part of why the elections in the PA were called off, because Fatah feared losing all control).
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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #405 on: May 11, 2021, 05:54:55 PM »
And how is that different than what Israel has done and is doing?
Why are you asking ME this question?
If you have 100 deaths on one side and 1 on the other side the claim is going to be it is not proportional. Has this happened so far, no.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #406 on: May 11, 2021, 05:59:57 PM »
Why are you asking ME this question?
If you have 100 deaths on one side and 1 on the other side the claim is going to be it is not proportional. Has this happened so far, no.

But we just agreed that there is no "proportional" reaction here....? We changed the rules, but still want to use the old yardstick.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #407 on: May 11, 2021, 06:00:56 PM »
Hamas were actually elected in Gaza. They were viewed as less corrupt that Fatah which gave them a landslide win (and which is part of why the elections in the PA were called off, because Fatah feared losing all control).

Do you believe that there are fair and democratic elections in Gaza under Hamas rule?
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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #408 on: May 11, 2021, 06:04:43 PM »
Do you believe that there are fair and democratic elections in Gaza under Hamas rule?

I have no clue. Fatah previously ruled there. There were elections in which Fatah lost and Hamas won and has ruled it ever since. They are all corrupt, it's just that Fatah is seen as more corrupt.
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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #409 on: May 11, 2021, 06:06:42 PM »
I have no clue. Fatah previously ruled there. There were elections in which Fatah lost and Hamas won and has ruled it ever since. They are all corrupt, it's just that Fatah is seen as more corrupt.

If our elections looked the way they did, what do you think theirs look like? I don't think freedom of choice is a big value in Gaza.
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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #410 on: May 11, 2021, 06:07:03 PM »
But we just agreed that there is no "proportional" reaction here....? We changed the rules, but still want to use the old yardstick.
Did I say Israel's response was not proportional?
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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #411 on: May 11, 2021, 06:09:24 PM »
If our elections looked the way they did, what do you think theirs look like? I don't think freedom of choice is a big value in Gaza.

Did they have more than 2 parties? More than 1 party?

ETA: Seems like there were more than 2 parties, but none of the smaller ones got any significant numbers. The level of foreign intervention in those elections puts all claims of foreign intervention to shame.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election
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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #412 on: May 11, 2021, 06:15:48 PM »
Did they have more than 2 parties? More than 1 party?

ETA: Seems like there were more than 2 parties, but none of the smaller ones got any significant numbers. The level of foreign intervention in those elections puts all claims of foreign intervention to shame.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election

My point is, saying "Hamas was elected in Gaza" is a meaningless statement.
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Offline Happyguy

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #413 on: May 11, 2021, 06:17:47 PM »
My point is, saying "Hamas was elected in Gaza" is a meaningless statement.

As many would say about Trump being elected in '16 or Biden in '20

Offline Lurker

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #414 on: May 11, 2021, 06:20:18 PM »
Did I say Israel's response was not proportional?

No, but you keep justifying others who do say that by using the meaningless 100-to-1 death toll. Either there is proportionate response or not. We've already agreed that it's not possible in this case. So lopsided death tolls mean nothing, unless we've established parameters for response that would render that result obscene. Except the parameters we've agreed on are neutralizing the threat, in which case, 100-to-1 is completely called for and should not be condemned as disproportionate.
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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #415 on: May 11, 2021, 06:20:38 PM »
As many would say about Trump being elected in '16 or Biden in '20

Kal va'chomer.
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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #416 on: May 11, 2021, 06:23:54 PM »
Democracy isn't a thing in Gaza.

What is going on in lod may make it harder for Israel to be one as well.

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #417 on: May 11, 2021, 06:29:26 PM »
No, but you keep justifying others who do say that by using the meaningless 100-to-1 death toll. Either there is proportionate response or not. We've already agreed that it's not possible in this case. So lopsided death tolls mean nothing, unless we've established parameters for response that would render that result obscene. Except the parameters we've agreed on are neutralizing the threat, in which case, 100-to-1 is completely called for and should not be condemned as disproportionate.
I didn't agree it is not possible. It looks proportional so far.

Saying there needs to be a proportional response does not automatically mean that is not the case so far. No matter if we agree or not the world is going to look at the death toll.
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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #418 on: May 11, 2021, 06:31:07 PM »
I didn't agree it is not possible. It looks proportional so far.

Saying there needs to be a proportional response does not automatically mean that is not the case so far. No matter if we agree or not the world is going to look at the death toll.

So if the world is looking at the wrong metric, what is Israel supposed to do?
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Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: War in Israel
« Reply #419 on: May 11, 2021, 06:31:34 PM »
Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu just made the following speech in front of the Knesset:

To Ismail Haniya, and the leaders and operatives of Hamas:

We, the people of Israel, owe you a huge debt of gratitude. You have succeeded where we have failed. Because never before, in the history of the modern State of Israel, has the Jewish people been so united, like one person with one heart. Everyone in Israel, from Left to Right, secular and religious, in united in the knowledge that there is no accommodating an enemy that is sworn to the genocide of our people.

And now, as you continue to launch deadly missiles indiscriminately, intended to maim and murder as many civilians as possible, while you take cowardly refuge behind your own civilians - you continue to inspire us to hold strongly onto our unity. Whatever disputes we Jews may have with each other, we now know that we have one common goal: we will defeat you.

But we are offering you now one last chance. Within 24 hours, all rocket fire - and I mean all rocket fire - will cease. Completely. Forever.

I give you formal notice that our tanks are massed at the Gaza border, with artillery and air support at the ready.  We have already dropped leaflets over the northern parts of the Gaza strip, warning civilians of our impending arrival, and that they should evacuate southward, forthwith.  If you fail to meet our ultimatum, we are coming in, and, with God's help, this time we will not leave.  Every centimeter of land that we conquer will be annexed to Israel, so that there will *never* be another attack launched at our civilians from there.

Even so, we will continue to keep the door open to allow you to surrender gracefully. The moment you announce that you are laying down arms, we will halt our advance, and there we will draw our new borders. If you continue to attack our citizens, we will continue to roll southwards, driving you out of territory that you will never again contaminate with your evil presence.

It pains me deeply that your civilians will be made homeless. But we did not choose this war; you did. And if our choice is between allowing our citizens to be targeted mercilessly by your genocidal savagery, versus turning your civilians into refugees, I regret that we must choose the latter. If only you loved your people as much as you hate ours, this war would never have happened.

To the rest of the world: Israel has tired of your ceaseless chidings that we should "show restraint".  When you have your entire population under constant missile fire from an implacable enemy whose stated goal is the murder of every man, woman and child in your land, then you may come and talk to us about "restraint". Until then, we respectfully suggest that you keep your double standards to yourselves. This time, Hamas has gone too far, and we will do whatever we have to in order to protect our population.

Hamas, once again, I thank you for bringing our people together with such clarity of mind and unity of purpose. The people of Israel do not fear the long road ahead.  Am Yisrael Chai.

ETA: The Speech that everyone wishes he would deliver.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 06:52:02 PM by Kobe Bryant »