War in Israel

[m65]

The first rule of conflict is to know your opponent. There is no level of misery that will bend them into submission.

Thats an unproven assumption

[PlatinumGuy]

The goal is like @ExGingi said, which is to show you can blow them to hell while making sure their lives aren't bad enough for them to feel they have nothing left to lose.

https://twitter.com/tallevram/status/1391798403152203778

[PlatinumGuy]

whats about u guys? corona is over so u found a new excuse?

Are anti maskers now anti bomb shelters?

https://twitter.com/bendror4/status/1391784948424712195

[m65]

I sometimes vehemently disagree with @PlatinumGuy as much as the next guy, but it's hard to argue that he's one of the most
1-grounded, AGREE 100%
2-knowledgeable, AGREE 100%
3-fact based, AGREE 100%
4-research based, AGREE 100%
5- logical, and well reasoned - this is where we differ
posters here. If you want to disagree with him, you gotta be a bit more articulate and explanatory than an ad hominem attack or just saying "That's dumb" without explaining why. Otherwise, it'll look like a Ben Schapiro conversation with Ilhan Omar.

[m65]

Are anti maskers now anti bomb shelters?

https://twitter.com/bendror4/status/1391784948424712195

no, anti bomb shelters became anti maskers

[m65]

i for one have no issue with ppl running to bomb shelters (unlike wearing masks)
i personally never did it, because the chance of a rocket landing in my ד אמות are about as large of my chances of convincing @PlatinumGuy of the faults of his arguments

[NTorch]

Unless you go back 1000s of years, it is unequivocally true that Jews seized control of Palestinian property much more than they did.

In 1930 there were ~150k Jews in Israel. Today there are 7-8m.

The issue in East Jeruslam is more complex. It’s true that Jews owned the land pre 1948, but Israeli law doesn’t allow Arab owners to reclaim land they owned and deserted in 1948 (חוק נכסי נפקדים), and if Jewish owners pre 1948 were classified the same way, the property in East Jerusalem would belong to the Arabs who live there since 1948, in some cases it’s the same family.

If you recognize pre-1948 ownership, most of Rechavia, Telbia, & other Jewish neighborhoods would be claimed by their legitimate Arab owners who deserted on 1948

What about Chevron?

[Yehuda57]

@Mods, please move this thread to the ... Covid board?

[PlatinumGuy]

i for one have no issue with ppl running to bomb shelters (unlike wearing masks)
i personally never did it, because the chance of a rocket landing in my ד אמות are about as large of my chances of convincing @PlatinumGuy of the faults of his arguments

The family in Kiryat Anavim was saved because they rushed into the mamad reinforced secure room

What about Chevron?

What about it?

[m65]

@Mods, please move this thread to the ... Covid board?

from now on i think all arguments from now on should go like this
a- left!
b- right!
c- extreme left!!!
d- extreme right!!!

why should we waste our time with all the detailed explanations?

[m65]

The family in Kiryat Anavim was saved because they rushed into the mamad reinforced secure room

ok and johnny won the lottery.
doesnt mean that @m65 will

[aygart]

Wearing masks in a stuffy bomb shelter must be real torture.

[NTorch]

Unless you go back 1000s of years, it is unequivocally true that Jews seized control of Palestinian property much more than they did.

In 1930 there were ~150k Jews in Israel. Today there are 7-8m.

The issue in East Jeruslam is more complex. It’s true that Jews owned the land pre 1948, but Israeli law doesn’t allow Arab owners to reclaim land they owned and deserted in 1948 (חוק נכסי נפקדים), and if Jewish owners pre 1948 were classified the same way, the property in East Jerusalem would belong to the Arabs who live there since 1948, in some cases it’s the same family.

If you recognize pre-1948 ownership, most of Rechavia, Telbia, & other Jewish neighborhoods would be claimed by their legitimate Arab owners who deserted on 1948

What about Chevron?

What about it?

For many years, the small community of 800 Jews in the ancient city of Hebron lived in peace with their tens of thousands of Arab neighbors. But, on the night of August 23, 1929, the tension simmering within this cauldron of nationalities bubbled over, and for a period of three days, Hebron turned into a city of terror and murder as the Arab residents led a rampaging massacre against the bewildered and helpless Jewish community.

By the time the massacre ended, 67 Jews lay dead – their homes and synagogues destroyed – and the few hundred survivors were relocated to Jerusalem.  The aftermath left Hebron barren of Jews for the first time in hundreds of years.

The summer of 1929 was one of unrest in Palestine as Jewish immigrants were arriving in increasing numbers and the agitations of the mufti in Jerusalem spurred on Jewish-Arab tensions. Just one day prior to the start of the Hebron massacre, three Jews and three Arabs were killed in Jerusalem when fighting broke out after a Muslim prayer service on the Temple Mount. Arabs spread false rumors and libels throughout their communities, saying that Jews were carrying out “wholesale killings of Arabs.”

Hebron Massacre
Collage of massacre photos.

Hebron had up until this time been outwardly peaceful, although tensions hid below the surface. The Sephardi Jewish community (Jews who were originally from Spain, North Africa and Arab countries) in Hebron had lived quietly with its Arab neighbors for centuries. Theses Sephardi Jews spoke Arabic and had a cultural connection with the Arabs of Hebron.

In the mid-1800s, Ashkenazi (native European) Jews started moving to Hebron and, in 1925, the Slobodka Yeshiva – officially called the Yeshiva of Hebron Knesset Yisrael-Slobodka – was opened. Yeshiva students lived separately from both the Sephardi Jewish community and from the Arab population. This isolation fed the Arab view that these “Zionist immigrants” were suspicious. Still, one yeshiva student, Dov Cohen, recalled being on “very good” terms with the Arab neighbors. He remembered yeshiva boys taking long walks late at night on the outskirts of the city and not feeling afraid, even though only one British policeman guarded the entire city.

On Friday, August 23, 1929, that tranquility was lost.

Arab youths began the riots by hurling rocks at the yeshiva students as they walked by. That afternoon, student Shmuel Rosenholtz went to the yeshiva alone. Arab rioters broke into the building and killed him. Rosenholtz’s was but the first of dozens of murders.

On Friday night, Rabbi Ya’acov Slonim’s son invited any Jews fearful of the worsening situation to stay in their family house. The rabbi was highly regarded in the community, and he kept a gun. Many of the Jews in the community took this offer for shelter. Unfortunately, many of these people were eventually murdered there.

Hebron Massacre
Destruction at the Avraham Avinu Synagogue in the Jewish Quarter

As early as 8:00 a.m. on Saturday morning - the Jewish Sabbath - Arabs began to gather en masse around the Jewish community. They came in mobs, armed with clubs, knives and axes. While the women and children threw stones, the men ransacked Jewish houses and destroyed Jewish property. With only a single police officer in all of Hebron, the Arabs were able to enter Jewish courtyards with literally no opposition.

Rabbi Slonim, who had tried to shelter the Jews, was approached by the rioters and offered a deal. If all the Ashkenazi yeshiva students were given over to the Arabs, the rioters would spare the lives of the Sephardi community.

Rabbi Slonim refused to turn over the students.  The Arabs killed him on the spot.

By the end of the massacre, 12 Sephardi Jews and 55 Ashkenazi Jews were murdered.

A few Arabs did try to help the Jews. Nineteen Arab families saved dozens if not hundreds of Hebron’s Jews. Zmira Mani wrote about an Arab named Abu Id Zaitoun who brought his brother and son to rescue her family. The Arab family protected the Manis with their swords, hid them in a cellar along with other Jews they had saved, and eventually found a policeman to escort them safely to the police station at Beit Romano.

Hebron Massacre
Jewish home in Hebron plundered

The Beit Romano police station turned into a shelter for the Jews on the morning of Saturday, August 24. It also became a synagogue when the Orthodox Jews gathered there said their morning prayers. As they finished praying, they began to hear noises outside the building. Thousands of Arabs descended from Har Hebron, shouting “Kill the Jews!” in Arabic. They even tried to break down the doors of the station.

For three days, the Jews were besieged in Beit Romano by the rampaging Arabs. Each night, ten men were allowed to leave the building and go to Hebron’s ancient Jewish cemetery to conduct a funeral for any Jews murdered that day.

Violence throughout Palestine instigated by the Arabs resulted in the death of 133 Jews and 110 Arabs (most killed by British security forces).

Three days after the massacre, the British evacuated the 484 survivors, including 153 children, to Jerusalem. More than 200 Arabs and 15 Jews were tried and sentenced for their role in the unrest in 1929. Out of 27 capital cases involving Arabs, only three of the death sentences  were carried out, the others were granted “mercy” and their sentences were commuted to life in prison. Muhammad Jamjoum, Fuad Hijazi, and Ataa Al-Zir were put to death on June 17, 1930, because they were convicted of particularly brutal murders in Safad and Hebron.

On July 14, 1930, the Palestine Bulletin reported that Arab leaders wanted to honor the men and planned to discuss whether to erect a statue in their memory. The British, however, banned all public assemblies and political speeches to commemorate their death. Today, there is a memorial to the men in Acre and, every year, the Palestinian Authority commemorates the execution of these “heroes.”

A number of Jewish families tried to move back to Hebron, but were removed by the British authorities in 1936 at the start of the Arab revolt.

In 1948, Israel gained its independence from Britain, but Hebron was captured by King Abdullah’s Arab Legion during the War of Independence and ultimately annexed to Jordan.

When Israel finally regained control of the city in 1967, a small number of survivors from the massacre again tried to reclaim their old houses. Defense Minister Moshe Dayan supposedly told the survivors that if they returned, they would be arrested, and that they should be patient while the government worked out a solution to get their houses back.

Years later, settlers moved to parts of Hebron without the permission of the government, but for those massacre survivors still seeking their original homes, that solution never came.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-hebron-massacre-of-1929

[yelped]

I think we should keep the wider ranging discussions out of this thread and keep this for specific updates related to the ongoing situation in Israel.

Hashem Yishmor.

[ExGingi]

Israel’s policy is carrot and stick. There is was definitely an element of appeasement- see Mossad chief begging Qatar to give $ to Hamas and today’s events, but it was well worth it. There were also plenty of Air Force attacks.

Qatari money has nothing to do with appeasment. It's about

Part of that is understanding the psychology of (mostly the young people) on the other side. Making their lives miserable would put them in a state of mind of "nothing to lose".

The "Palestinian" narrative and PR success (which Netanyahu slowly chipped away at) was one of victimhood, which is why they are the only "refugees" in the world from a war that took place more than 70 years ago, many 2nd and 3rd generation. Keeping them miserable and not allowing them to build their own lives and move on, is keeping the conflict alive. Allowing (or actually encouraging) the Qatari money is about ameliorating that situation. While international funds have been mostly embezzled by the corrupt leadership, the Qatari money sometimes actually gets to people that need to get on with life.

If there was one OBVIOUS lesson to be learned from the mistakes of the Western Leaders with the Iraq wars and the "Arab Spring" it was never to underestimate the value of stability. That is why Israel WANTS Hamas to keep maintaining control of Gaza, Assad to maintain whatever control he has of Syria, and The Hashemite Kingdom to maintain whatever control they have of Trans-Jordan.

[chinagel]

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-hebron-massacre-of-1929

What's your point?

[coffeebean]

Part of Har Habayis now on fire.

[Lurker]

Part of Har Habayis now on fire.

Apparently a tree, from fireworks.

[gozalim]

ladies and gentleman, the post of the millenia

FTFY

[joe1234]

Thats a shame

I agree,  because no matter who is right or wrong, there is always knowledge to be learned from you...