War in Israel

[m65]

Part of Har Habayis now on fire.

har habayis has been on fire for almost 2000 years now

[Happyguy]

[m65]

does this remind anyone of anything?

[PlatinumGuy]

I agree,  because no matter who is right or wrong, there is always knowledge to be learned from you...

Wow, thank you. I'm sure the same applies to you, which is why it's a shame you have better ways to spend your time 

[PlatinumGuy]

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-hebron-massacre-of-1929

There are tens if not hundreds of Arab towns that were taken over by Jews. I'm not well versed on the history of Chevron but one thing most people aren't aware of is that the 1929 massacre was provoked by the British giving Jews more rights in the contentious Jlem old city. Obviously, that doesn't legitimize the Arab response, but it illustrates how oftentimes being smart and pragmatic leads to better outcomes than being (dead) right.

השביע הקדוש ברוך הוא את ישראל שלא ימרדו באומות העולם

Many Jewish lives could've been spared if we didn't provoke our enemies. From the time of the Churban to events this morning in the old city.

It is also true that many Jewish lives probably could've been spared by better resistance. Knowing how to act in each circumstance is an art professionals continuously attempt to finesse.

[Ergel]

9 oclock threats on TLV a bluff?

[PlatinumGuy]

It’s hard to pinpoint precise cause and effect but broadly speaking it started by Israeli police cordoning off a section of Shaar Shechem which precipitated riots which spiraled into TikTok terror, Jewish thug violence, more tension, police restricting Arab entry to the Temple Mount, riots in Jaffa following a failed lynch, riots in East Jerusalem related to complex real estate litigation that has Jewish owners pre 1948 evicting Arab residents since (whereas Arabs who owned property before 1948 and deserted it aren’t legally able to reclaim)

To add a few factors I left out, Ramadaan is always a tense time in the Arab world, Hamas is very angry at the PA for cancelling the Palestinian election after it became evident the ruling Fatah party would lose and Hamas would likely win, Hamas is very angry at Mansour Abbas's United Arab List and even voices in the Joint Arab List that are willing to end their 72 year boycott of Israel and join the government, essentially Israeli Arabs betraying the Palestinians, and Netanyahu stands to gain politically from instability (he made some difficult moves to try to quiet things down, but I think he could've done more like cancelling the march through Shaar Shechem before the last minute).

Ultimately, my guess at this point is that Hamas decided to shoot today to win popular support by portraying themselves as protectors of Al Aqsa, and took a calculated gamble that they'll be able to end this round without catastrophic results.

[PlatinumGuy]

9 oclock threats on TLV a bluff?

Chasdei hashem. I spent 15 min in bomb shelter saying tehillim. (Wasn't doing anything productive anyways).

[ExGingi]

Chasdei hashem. I spent 15 min in bomb shelter saying tehillim. (Wasn't doing anything the most productive thing anyone could do most of the time anyways).

FTFY

[Ergel]

Was this whole thing orchestrated by Bibi?

[yitzgar]

FTFY

I think he meant previously

[PlatinumGuy]

Land and borders have been seized all over the world throughout history. And borders have been drawn by armed conflict.

In this case it's the Arabs who want to preserve the status quo as seized during the conflict, and Jews who want to revert to the pre war ownership 75 years ago.

The idea that the victims of a war should be treated the same way as the aggressors (or their supporters) is not one that would be said, let alone taken seriously, in any other context.

Historically speaking, I don't think it's accurate to portray Jews in East Jerusalem as victims of the 1948 war and Arabs as aggressors. From a technical perspective I believe Israel declared war and abandoned the UN partition plan prior to organized Arab resistance.

If you accept that the victor of a war can void previous ownership of land and award it as they wish, the rightful owners are those accepted by the Jordanian victors.

Also, you are conflating individual ownership with political control which are two very different considerations.

I think you may be missing the details - I am talking 100% about individual ownership of specific properties. Arabs who abandoned their houses pre 1948 (many neighborhoods in West Jerusalem) cannot sue for it under חוק נכסי נפקדים, and Jews can (the current story in East Jerusalem).

 It's not necessarily unfair, or the Israeli courts would strike it down, but it is understandably upsetting the Arabs.

[PlatinumGuy]

Was this whole thing orchestrated by Bibi?

I hope not. He did capitulate to most Arab demands which was difficult politically, but he probably should've done so earlier.

Ohana is turning out to be a real problem. He speaks well but executes horribly. 

[PlatinumGuy]

FTFY

No doubt - my point was about going down to the bomb shelter, which many would consider excessive.

To me it seemed that when Hamas threatened an attack at 18:00 they preformed, so it would be prudent to take their 21:00 threat at face value. Israel doesn't tell people to take shelter because of classic obstinate attitude of 'you won't tell me what to do'.

[ExGingi]

Israel doesn't tell people to take shelter because of classic obstinate attitude of 'you won't tell me what to do'.

-1

Hamas announcements are part of their psychological warfare. Unless the Israeli authorities/military feel there's imminent danger they won't play into it and allow it to terrorize the population.

[PlatinumGuy]

https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1391816017094062081

[PlatinumGuy]

-1

Hamas announcements are part of their psychological warfare. Unless the Israeli authorities/military feel there's imminent danger they won't play into it and allow it to terrorize the population.

My point was there was imminent danger.

[m65]

Many Jewish lives could've been spared if we didn't provoke our enemies.

even more would be spared if we just ceased to exist

Historically speaking, I don't think it's accurate to portray Jews in East Jerusalem as victims of the 1948 war and Arabs as aggressors. From a technical perspective I believe Israel declared war and abandoned the UN partition plan prior to organized Arab resistance.

oh, they just wanted to nonviolently push us into the sea, and we defended ourselves so VIOLENTLY! of course we were the aggressors, and they are the victims...

If you accept that the victor of a war can void previous ownership of land and award it as they wish, the rightful owners are those accepted by the Jordanian victors.

if u accept that then the current israeli victors are the rightful owners

Chasdei hashem. I spent 15 min in bomb shelter saying tehillim. (Wasn't doing anything productive anyways).

posting on ddf is not productive???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ExGingi]

My point was there was imminent danger.

And my point was that there wasn't such danger.

[Euclid]

mods can we change the thread title, I think (hope) it's a bit melodramatic.