War in Israel

[gozalim]

If true, this is a huge change in Israeli strategy - allowing an international force to control Gaza and demilitarize Hamas. Excellent move in my opinion. Hamas can’t be allowed to continue getting stronger, and this is the least costly policing method.

https://www.globes.co.il/news/article.aspx?did=1001371577

yup, international forces have been really reliable in the past

[AsherO]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/05/19/readout-of-president-joseph-r-biden-jr-call-with-prime-minister-benjamin-netanyahu-of-israel-5/

"Expects a significant de-escalation"? Is Bibi his 6 year old that gets told what to do on the count of 3? Obama is relishing having the White House mouthpiece back.


 🤮

I hope Netanyahu had a nice diplomatic way of telling him to <bleep off>

[CountValentine]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/05/19/readout-of-president-joseph-r-biden-jr-call-with-prime-minister-benjamin-netanyahu-of-israel-5/

"Expects a significant de-escalation"? Is Bibi his 6 year old that gets told what to do on the count of 3? Obama is relishing having the White House mouthpiece back.

I hope Netanyahu had a nice diplomatic way of telling him to <bleep off>

A potential ceasefire between Israel and Hamas to start Friday afternoon, according to Israeli media (Channel 12).

I would call that (if true) a "significant de-escalation", no?

[CountValentine]

I don’t think that thought ever crossed anyone’s mind. That’s asinine and outrageous. I think the argument being made is that a ground invasion will inevitably lead to more deaths. Full disclosure: This thread is too fast paced and I haven’t FTT.

I am not the one who brought up it "crossed anyone's mind". 
In this tread and in another thread on more than one occasion the response to points a made were along the lines "you cannot argue disproportionate without calling for dead Israelis".

[aygart]

I am not the one who brought up it "crossed anyone's mind". 
In this tread and in another thread on more than one occasion the response to points a made were along the lines "you cannot argue disproportionate without calling for dead Israelis".

Without speaking for all of them, my understanding of the arguements being made is that MOST are made in a context or tone that means they are in effect calling for dead Israelis and not that they need to mean that.

[CountValentine]

Without speaking for all of them, my understanding of the arguements being made is that MOST are made in a context or tone that means they are in effect calling for dead Israelis and not that they need to mean that.

It is me making the point not "MOST".

[PlatinumGuy]

yup, international forces have been really reliable in the past

Notably, international forces won the world war and ended the Holocaust.

[PlatinumGuy]

The fact that you can name one deranged individual person and we all know whom and what you are referring to should dispel the notion of “plenty Jews.” to equate Judaism to Muslim jihadist is nothing short of despicable.

I really have to stop clicking on “show me the post”

Conveniently ignored the first half of my post. As I said, plenty of killing were done in the name of Judaism, and no, I wasn’t talking about Goldstein.

[PlatinumGuy]

There is a mitzva of mechiyas amalek, or does your version of the Torah not include that?

So you agree Judaism commands killing and violence?

[PlatinumGuy]

Fact check: Liar pants on fire

This is the quote
How is Baruch Goldstien "plenty"?

I wasn’t talking about Goldstein. I was talking about Amalak and other mass killings in Jewish history. Are you able to refute that without twisting my post?

I brought up Goldstein only because I thought it was funny that somebody defined history as 25 years specifically to exclude a story that happened 27 years ago. There were plenty of Jewish terrorist attacks before 1948 as well. Afterwards there were universally acknowledged military mass murders and countless disputed killings.

The biggest (most fatalities) massacres in Israel were all done by Jews, so Goldstein wasn’t an isolated incident, but that’s not what I’m talking about anyways.

[Dan]

[TimT]

He’s gold

[NTorch]

So you agree Judaism commands killing and violence?

I believe that mechiyas amalek is a mitzva in the Torah which no one has fulfilled for hundreds of years.

Now lets get back to his point - he said that

Because (political) Islam is the religion of peace...

Just like all other religions in whose name killing is occurring all over the world.

You responded:

Plenty of killing happened in the name of Judaism

And I called you on that:

@PlatinumGuy - Please explain how your post addressed his. Does it disprove what he wrote or just point in another direction?

Also - please identify any killing in the name of Judaism which occurred in the last twenty-five years. His point is that every year there are hundreds of murders which occur with a person yelling Alahu Akbar. Please identify any person who killed in the name of Judaism.

Can you address any point directed to you?

Yesterday you showed a picture of a girl crying over the remnants of her schoolbook and I posted many articles about the textbooks calling for the
killing of Jews.

Yesterday he asked you about killing in the name of Islam every year and you deflected it by saying that there is killing in the name of Judaism.

Last week you talked about people being thrown out of their homes and I posted about the Chevron massacre in 1929 which caused all the Jews in Chevron to flee their homes and you responded with "I'm not well versed on the history of Chevron " followed immediately by "one thing most people aren't aware of is that the 1929 massacre was provoked by the British giving Jews more rights in the contentious Jlem old city."

[CountValentine]

I seen Treavor Noah's comment on this and it wasn't a snarky comedy bit but maybe he had others.

My answer would be you go into these schools, hospitals and other buildings and kill everyone of these terrorist scumbags.

[PlatinumGuy]

I believe that mechiyas amalek is a mitzva in the Torah which no one has fulfilled for hundreds of years.

So it doesn’t matter?

I believe that mechiyas amalek is a mitzva in the Torah which no one has fulfilled for hundreds of years.

Now lets get back to his point - he said that

You responded:

And I called you on that:
Can you address any point directed to you?

Yesterday you showed a picture of a girl crying over the remnants of her schoolbook and I posted many articles about the textbooks calling for the
killing of Jews.

Yesterday he asked you about killing in the name of Islam every year and you deflected it by saying that there is killing in the name of Judaism.

Last week you talked about people being thrown out of their homes and I posted about the Chevron massacre in 1929 which caused all the Jews in Chevron to flee their homes and you responded with "I'm not well versed on the history of Chevron " followed immediately by "one thing most people aren't aware of is that the 1929 massacre was provoked by the British giving Jews more rights in the contentious Jlem old city."

You’re putting words in my mouth that I never said. Somebody said Islam is violent and I pointed out Judaism is violent too. What’s your problem? I’m happy to address any point as long as I understand what is you want me to address.

I said more Arabs have been forced to flee their homes than Jews and you repeatedly bring up Chevron despite it being only 1 town compared to over 100 Arabs towns.

[ExGingi]

I wasn’t talking about Goldstein. I was talking about Amalak and other mass killings in Jewish history. Are you able to refute that without twisting my post?

As I pointed out to @CountValentine (corrected typos in quote below)

Let's just say that global morals and politics have evolved greatly over that last century or two. Take slavery for example. And there are many others.

And while we're not in the Geopolitics thread, you can't ignore the huge transformation that occurred over the last 100+ years, where the world moved from Empires to Nation States.

And since I suspected you might be referring to עמלק, I actually asked for your clarification

Explain "Plenty" (especially in comparison to what the world has seen over the last 50 years by Islamic peace loving zealots).

And BTW, bringing up עמלק out of historical context is somewhat disingenuous. Those were by far more bloody times, and the Jewish nation was targeted not only by עמלק but by almost all nations, with probably far greater Jewish fatalities.

And since I suspected that you might also have in mind pre-1967 events, I put that 50 year number there.

I brought up Goldstein only because I thought it was funny that somebody defined history as 25 years specifically to exclude a story that happened 27 years ago. There were plenty of Jewish terrorist attacks before 1948 as well. Afterwards there were universally acknowledged military mass murders and countless disputed killings.

The biggest (most fatalities) massacres in Israel were all done by Jews, so Goldstein wasn’t an isolated incident, but that’s not what I’m talking about anyways.

And while you might bring up Goldstein, Dir Yassin or others, I think there might be a differentiation between "in the name of Judaism" vs "in the name of Zionism".

Also, we should distinguish (again, in modern history) between individuals vs states and organizations.

From what I understand Goldstein used similar logic to Yigal Amir. I don't know what information they had, or if they consulted any Halachic authority prior to acting.

הצד השווה שבהן is that they both acted as individuals, based on their personal interpretation of the facts and the laws, as opposed to organized killings by states and organizations in the name of religion.

[PlatinumGuy]

.

TL;DR: The killings being done in the name of Islam are worse than the killings done in the name of Judaism.


Probably not the smartest argument to have, but which religion calls for killing most gay men, which are around 5% of the US?

As I said above: one religion is true and its killings the pinnacle of fairness and justice, and the other false and it’s killings atrocious. But I don’t know if it’s fair to say one is overall more violent than the other.

[Yo ssi]

TL;DR:

!

[Lurker]

TL;DR: The killings being done in the name of Islam are worse than the killings done in the name of Judaism.


Probably not the smartest argument to have, but which religion calls for killing most gay men, which are around 5% of the US?

As I said above: one religion is true and its killings the pinnacle of fairness and justice, and the other false and it’s killings atrocious. But I don’t know if it’s fair to say one is overall more violent than the other.

There's a huge difference between institutional religious violence and violent acts by individuals in the name of religion. Even going back to the beginning of recorded history, Amelek included, Judaism has, by far, the lowest incidence of institutional religious violence of any major religion.

[PlatinumGuy]

Even going back to the beginning of recorded history, Amelek included, Judaism has, by far, the lowest incidence of institutional religious violence of any major religion.

I would love to see data backing up that claim.