War in Israel

[CountValentine]

Judaism has, by far, the lowest incidence of institutional religious violence of any major religion.

Did you really just say that?
"Judaism - The least violent of any major religion"  

[PlatinumGuy]

Did you really just say that?
"Judaism - The least violent of any major religion"  

At least we agreed there is some violence, which was my original point...

[Yellow]

A potential ceasefire between Israel and Hamas to start Friday afternoon, according to Israeli media (Channel 12).

Any update on this?

[PlatinumGuy]

Any update on this?

Al Jazeera reports that Netanyahu told the intermediaries (predominantly Egyptian) that Israel will accept a cease fire.

There is an Israeli Cabinet meeting at 19:00 - a vote is required for a ceasefire.

Other Arab media reports Hamas is still insisting on Israeli commitments in E Jerusalem, which is very unlikely Israel will offer Hamas & Smotrich threatened Bibbi that he will not join his coalition if he does.

Personally, I don't know if there will be a small ceasefire or not, but I think Hamas didn't lose and is going to maintain a low flame war of attrition until Israel sends ground troops.

[Lurker]

Did you really just say that?
"Judaism - The least violent of any major religion"  

Historically, yes. Currently, institutional religious violence is limited to (large?) segments of Islam, and fringe groups associated with other religions, including Judaism and Christianity.

At least we agreed there is some violence, which was my original point...

Historically, there has always been violence. Different moral codes. Currently, it' would be stupid to make an absolute statement that it doesn't exist, but equally stupid to mention institutional Islamic violence in the same sentence as any other religion.

[ExGingi]

Probably not the smartest argument to have,

Couldn't have said it better... 

...which religion calls for killing most gay men, which are around 5% of the US?

Please, do tell us. Which religion calls for killing most gay men? (quotes/sources to back up your assertions would be appreciated).

[CountValentine]

Historically, yes.

Maybe it is just me but that might be one of those things better left unsaid.

[PlatinumGuy]

Couldn't have said it better... 

Please, do tell us. Which religion calls for killing most gay men? (quotes/sources to back up your assertions would be appreciated).

By most gay men I meant those who engaged in gay relations.

בן נח... וחייב על הזכור בין קטן בין גדול


...

 ובן נח שעבר על אחת משבע מצות אלו יהרג בסייף ‏[1] ומפני זה נתחייבו כל בעלי שכם הריגה שהרי שכם גזל והם ראו וידעו ולא דנוהו ובן נח נהרג בעד אחד ובדיין אחד בלא התראה ועל פי קרובין אבל לא בעדות אשה ולא תדון אשה להם.

https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/רמב%22ם_הלכות_מלכים_ומלחמות_ט

[Lurker]

Maybe it is just me but that might be one of those things better left unsaid.

That goes for 80% of this thread and most of the JS, Politics, and Covid boards. Not sure what your issue with the statement is...

[ExGingi]

By most gay men I meant those who engaged in gay relations.
https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/רמב%22ם_הלכות_מלכים_ומלחמות_ט

Maybe you should be learning that (along with תורת המלך, and other seforim that discuss שבע מצוות בני נח) a little more.

כיצד מצווין הן על הדינין חייבין להושיב דיינין ושופטים בכל פלך ופלך לדון בשש מצות אלו ולהזהיר את העם ובן נח שעבר על אחת משבע מצות אלו יהרג בסייף ‏[1] ומפני זה נתחייבו כל בעלי שכם הריגה שהרי שכם גזל והם ראו וידעו ולא דנוהו ובן נח נהרג בעד אחד ובדיין אחד בלא התראה ועל פי קרובין אבל לא בעדות אשה ולא תדון אשה להם.

So you are equating the Torah saying that all nations are REQUIRED to have a legal system that includes capital punishment with Jihad and indiscriminate killings?

[CountValentine]

Not sure what your issue with the statement is...

You are saying Judaism is the least violent in the same statement as extremely violent religions.
That is like me say I am the least racist in the same statement about extreme racism like the KKK. 

[PlatinumGuy]

Maybe you should be learning that (along with תורת המלך, and other seforim that discuss שבע מצוות בני נח) a little more.


So you are equating the Torah saying that all nations are REQUIRED to have a legal system that includes capital punishment with Jihad and indiscriminate killings?

Is capital punishment of ~5% of the US population not ‘killings’?  They have reasons for their killings too. (As I said twice above, one is true and one is false)

[PlatinumGuy]

Al Jazeera reports that Netanyahu told the intermediaries (predominantly Egyptian) that Israel will accept a cease fire.

There is an Israeli Cabinet meeting at 19:00 - a vote is required for a ceasefire.

Other Arab media reports Hamas is still insisting on Israeli commitments in E Jerusalem, which is very unlikely Israel will offer Hamas & Smotrich threatened Bibbi that he will not join his coalition if he does.

Personally, I don't know if there will be a small ceasefire or not, but I think Hamas didn't lose and is going to maintain a low flame war of attrition until Israel sends ground troops.

בכיר החמאס, סאמי אבו זהרי:
"הכרזה של ישראל על הפסקת אש חד צדדית תהיה הודאה בתבוסתה"

[aygart]

By most gay men I meant those who engaged in gay relations.
https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/רמב%22ם_הלכות_מלכים_ומלחמות_ט

who continued their act in front of 2 witnesses who warned them that they would testify about them for capital punishment.

[PlatinumGuy]

When opening Waze in Jlem this pops up

[Kobe Bryant]

Defense Minister Gantz: Prepared to expand the campaign as needed. We are taking Hamas on a journey back in time - a journey from which we will not allow it to return.

[PlatinumGuy]

who continued their act in front of 2 witnesses who warned them that they would testify about them for capital punishment.

Not needed, see Rambam quoted above

[ExGingi]

Is capital punishment of ~5% of the US population not ‘killings’?  They have reasons for their killings too. (As I said twice above, one is true and one is false)

I think I am done with you on this round.

Based on your logic the Nüremberg trials (and the Eichmann ימ"ש trial) were "killings" though on a smaller scale than what the Nazis (ימח שמם) "final solution".

[aygart]

I wasn’t talking about Goldstein. I was talking about Amalak and other mass killings in Jewish history. Are you able to refute that without twisting my post?

I brought up Goldstein only because I thought it was funny that somebody defined history as 25 years specifically to exclude a story that happened 27 years ago. There were plenty of Jewish terrorist attacks before 1948 as well. Afterwards there were universally acknowledged military mass murders and countless disputed killings.

The biggest (most fatalities) massacres in Israel were all done by Jews, so Goldstein wasn’t an isolated incident, but that’s not what I’m talking about anyways.

There were 2 points there. One was that you lied about what you wrote. You wrote "plenty" and then claimed to have written that "Judaism had its share" That is what earned you the "liar pant on fire" designation which still stands.

Equating anything done by Jews to things done in the name of Judaism as well as your resorting to events that occurred over 3000 years ago (!) are the best illustration of how disingenuous your arguments are. There are other arguemnets to make about how Judaism may or may not be more or less integrally violent than other religions, but these are simply disingenuous.

[TimT]

https://twitter.com/shtickydude/status/1395392543119052801