War in Israel

[CountValentine]

...now the millions that we give to Hamas on the other hand....

We don't give millions to a terrorist organization.

[Jellybelly]

Considering the economic benefits that the US reaps from the deal makes it worth it, now the millions that we give to Hamas on the other hand....and the free BILLIONS we give to Iran....we see nothing. So take your angry face and shove it.

Quality of life tip #23637172

@CountValentine and @PlatinumGuy have brains that work differently than almost everybody here.
It’s wisest to not respond at all, you can if you want but it is futile as it’s just like talking to a wall.
But definitely not worth getting all worked up

[Lurker]

Quality of life tip #23637172

@CountValentine and @PlatinumGuy have brains that work differently than almost everybody here.
It’s wisest to not respond at all, you can if you want but it is futile as it’s just like talking to a wall.
But definitely not worth getting all worked up

-1 I'd like to think their perspectives have evolved a little as a result of some of the arguments.

[CountValentine]

Quality of life tip #23637172

@CountValentine and @PlatinumGuy have brains that work differently than almost everybody here.
It’s wisest to not respond at all, you can if you want but it is futile as it’s just like talking to a wall.
But definitely not worth getting all worked up

Translation: If you have no facts to back up what you are saying just best to keep your mouth shut. 

Still waiting for the "economic" benefits we receive.

[CountValentine]

-1 I'd like to think their perspectives have evolved a little as a result of some of the arguments.

At the very least we will all learn something new even if we don't agree.
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=125020.0
 
I guess some feel more safe and secure in an echo chamber.

[CountValentine]

@CountValentine and @PlatinumGuy have brains that work differently than almost everybody here.

I guess some feel more safe and secure in an echo chamber.

[Lurker]

Translation: If you have no facts to back up what you are saying just best to keep your mouth shut. 

Still waiting for the "economic" benefits we receive.

Israel uses that money to develop tech, which we then incorporate in our products and sell. Specifically military tech.

[CountValentine]

Israel uses that money to develop tech, which we then incorporate in our products and sell. Specifically military tech.

Lets assume that is true. Is it worth the billions we give them each year.
For the record we should support them as they are the only democracy in the area.

Considering the economic benefits that the US reaps from the deal makes it worth it,

[Lurker]

Lets assume that is true. Is it worth the billions we give them each year.
For the record we should support them as they are the only democracy in the area.

Intelligence alone makes it worth it. It's very hard to put a hard number on the economic impact that intelligence generates, but there definitely is financial benefit. In terms of foreign aid, I don't think we see nearly as much of a return from money we send to any other country.

[CountValentine]

Intelligence alone makes it worth it. It's very hard to put a hard number on the economic impact that intelligence generates, but there definitely is financial benefit. In terms of foreign aid, I don't think we see nearly as much of a return from money we send to any other country.

We get very little if anything in return from other countries. Also remember there is a downside for our aid/support of Israel. It fuels the hate towards us in the Arab world but that is the price we pay.

My beef is not with the aid but them apparently asking for more when our president already committed to replenishing the Iron Dome. It is like an ungrateful stepchild. 

[Lurker]

We get very little if anything in return from other countries. Also remember there is a downside for our aid/support of Israel. It fuels the hate towards us in the Arab world but that is the price we pay.

My beef is not with the aid but them apparently asking for more when our president already committed to replenishing the Iron Dome. It is like an ungrateful stepchild. 

2 points. First, our aid to Israel does absolutely nothing to increase the hate against the US. Either they hate us and our values, or they don't. Contrary to the perception on the street here, the Arab world has more concerns than Israel. Second, asking for more doesn't mean they're ungrateful. We can say no and our relationship won't change. They made a request, and we have to decide for ourselves if we think it's worth it.

ETA: I think the issue here is that you (and most Americans) look at Israel as a step-child, a one-way relationship where Israel is fully dependant on the generosity of the US with little-to-no return. We only see headlines of the money and arms going out, but we don't see what comes back. How many attacks against US interests has Israel prevented? How much have we benefited from their tech and science? None of that gets publicized, and that's probably in our best interest. There's a reason governmental support for Israel is bipartisan (in the committees and departments that matter), and it's not because of AIPAC.

[CountValentine]

To your first point when see the chants of death to US/Israel and the burning of both flags are them lumping the US with Israel or Israel with the US?

To your second point I strongly disagree. When someone gives you a generous gift you say thank you, not ask for more. 

[Lurker]

To your first point when see the chants of death to US/Israel and the burning of both flags are them lumping the US with Israel or Israel with the US?

To your second point I strongly disagree. When someone gives you generous gift you say thank you, not ask for more. 

Just because they like to lump their hate together, doesn't mean their hate for us is dependant on our support for Israel.

And see my edit for point 2.

[Yehuda57]

To your first point when see the chants of death to US/Israel and the burning of both flags are them lumping the US with Israel or Israel with the US?

This is an interesting question. I think it probably changes depending on who is chanting. Bin Laden, for instance, clearly hated America more.

To your second point I strongly disagree. When someone gives you a generous gift you say thank you, not ask for more. 

The point is it is more of a partnership than a gift.

[CountValentine]

Just because they like to lump their hate together, doesn't mean their hate for us is dependant on our support for Israel.

...but it very well can be. They don't agree with China's or Russia's values and we don't see them chanting death to them.

[CountValentine]

The point is it is more of a partnership than a gift.

All partnerships are not equal. 

[Lurker]

...but it very well can be. They don't agree with China's or Russia's values and we don't see them chanting death to them.

It's most definitely not dependent on our support for Israel. And I'm pretty sure you're not equating or comparing our values to those of Russia and China, so I'm not sure what your point is there.

All partnerships are not equal. 

The point is you have no clue what's involved in this partnership. For all you know, the imbalance may be tilted the other way. For example, if G-d forbid Israel gets blown up, the talent behind the tech may move to Europe, Asia, or even South America or Africa, throwing the balance of power to other countries, both by adding to their capabilities and subtracting from ours.

[yelped]

To your first point when see the chants of death to US/Israel and the burning of both flags are them lumping the US with Israel or Israel with the US?

To your second point I strongly disagree. When someone gives you a generous gift you say thank you, not ask for more. 

Iran calls Israel the little Satan and the US the Big Satan for example.

[CountValentine]

It's most definitely not dependent on our support for Israel. And I'm pretty sure you're not equating or comparing our values to those of Russia and China, so I'm not sure what your point is there.

You suggested the hate towards us was because of our values. They don't agree with China/Russia values either. Where is the chants death to them?

Either they hate us and our values, or they don't.

The point is you have no clue what's involved in this partnership. For all you know, the imbalance may be tilted the other way. For example, if G-d forbid Israel gets blown up, the talent behind the tech may move to Europe, Asia, or even South America or Africa, throwing the balance of power to other countries, both by adding to their capabilities and subtracting from ours.

If you are going to make these claims it is time for you back them up.

[CountValentine]

Very simple rhetorical question. When the people of Gaza see billions of US dollars going for the bombs dropped on them you don't think that fuels hate towards the US?