Geopolitics and Wars of Israel

[yelped]

You don't understand how when someone sees 100 dead on side and 10 dead on the other they might feel the response is harsh without hating the one side?

When you have 1,000 people who want to kill you, how many can you kill before allowing yourself to be killed, because, you know, it's "disproportionate"?

[CountValentine]

No, this is a ridiculous line of argument. More Israelis need to die?
How many terrorists is Israel allowed to kill for every one of its citizens who are murdered?

This isn't an argument. Many people will look at causalities and destruction. That is just a fact.
One side attacks, the other side responds, the other side responds and on and on.

NO, MORE ISRAELIES SHOULD NOT DIE!!!

[CountValentine]

When you have 1,000 people who want to kill you, how many can you kill before allowing yourself to be killed, because, you know, it's "disproportionate"?

That is an excellent question.

[Yehuda57]

This isn't an argument. Many people will look at causalities and destruction. That is just a fact.
One side attacks, the other side responds, the other side responds and on and on.

NO, MORE ISRAELIES SHOULD NOT DIE!!!

So if you break down the argument, anyone who continues to believe the lopsided casualty numbers are a legitimate criticism of Israel, even after understanding the lengths Israel goes to to avoid civilian deaths, the lengths Hamas goes to to increase them, and the lengths Israel goes to to protect its citizens, and the lengths Hamas goes to to harm its citizens, yes, they are severely biased against Israel

[EliJelly]

That is an excellent question.

But not a tough one to answer.

[CountValentine]

But not a tough one to answer.

For me it is or I would have answered it.

[yesitsme]

For me it is or I would have answered it.

This would help

[CountValentine]

This would help

I agree.
If they shoot 100 rockets at you and only 1 or 2 get through how many rockets should you shoot back?

[drosenberg88429]

I agree.
If they shoot 100 rockets at you and only 1 or 2 get through how many rockets should you shoot back?

It's not about revenge. It's about neutralizing a threat. If 1 bullet is enough to do the job, that's all that's called for. If it takes a thousand artillery rounds, then that is also appropriate.

If 10 armed gunmen attack me with murderous intent, I will do my utmost to eliminate or disable all 10 of them, even though there is guaranteed to be an imbalance of casualties.

[yesitsme]

I agree.
If they shoot 100 rockets at you and only 1 or 2 get through how many rockets should you shoot back?

What ever it takes to eliminate the threat, while its true most of them dont hit anything, you have almost the entire country terrorised

[yelped]

For me it is or I would have answered it.

Seriously?

[CountValentine]

Seriously?

Yes but we are probably looking at the question different ways.

[CountValentine]

If 10 armed gunmen attack me with murderous intent, I will do my utmost to eliminate or disable all 10 of them, even though there is guaranteed to be an imbalance of casualties.

I agree.
What if they failed in their attempt. Would you go hunt them down?

[EliJelly]

I agree.
What if they failed in their attempt. Would you go hunt them down?

If they run to hide and plan a better ambush, sure.

[yesitsme]

https://twitter.com/Ostrov_A/status/1393774784949936132

[CountValentine]

If they run to hide and plan a better ambush, sure.

Fair answer.
Now if I say you should not does that mean I hate you or I just feel what you are doing is wrong?

[yesitsme]

@CountValentine if you are wearing a bullet proof vest and someone (happans to be a terrorist soppurted by iran) shoots at you time and again would you take advice to show restraint?

Now take it on a state level

[EliJelly]

Fair answer.
Now if I say you should not does that mean I hate you or I just feel what you are doing is wrong?

If you're telling that only to me and not to others doing exactly the same, that would be hate.

[Yehuda57]

I agree.
If they shoot 100 rockets at you and only 1 or 2 get through how many rockets should you shoot back?

Enough until they aren't able to fire any rockets at all. (Israel will never do that, but they are entitled to)

I agree.
What if they failed in their attempt. Would you go hunt them down?

If they're still trying to kill me, of course!

[drosenberg88429]

When you have 1,000 people who want to kill you, how many can you kill before allowing yourself to be killed, because, you know, it's "disproportionate"?

That is an excellent question.

Anyone who is in the process of knowingly and willingly attempting murder has voluntarily given up the right for the morality of their threat elimination to be ascertained.

If one were you draw a moral dilemma, I believe the appropriate example would be a murderer hiding behind 1000 human shields. In such a scenerio, the question can be posed whether there is any moral justification to kill an innocent person to save yourself. On the other side of the equation, it's not just you at risk, but an entire population whom you are charged with protecting.

This is the question which ethical conundrum books were written about. However, there is a number in which most proponents of non interventionism in the trolley problem would switch over to advocating for sacrificing the life of one to save the lives of many. What that number is, I do not know. Neither does the Geneva convention or the ICC. The only thing they do agree is that a country's first responsibility is towards its citizens whom it is charged with protecting, and the elimination of a threat towards its citizens is justified even when it inevitably comes at a civilian cost.