Author Topic: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel  (Read 15710 times)

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #80 on: May 12, 2021, 03:20:12 PM »
?????????????????????????????

u have no qualms about nuking and killing tens of thousands of innocent ppl, but u think that someone whose life and that of his family and neighbors was in danger, and killed 1 measly fellow, who most probably was among those endangering his life should be investigated?
I didn’t say he should be investigated for a moral transgression, but for a (possibly) criminal action, which can also lead to practical ramifications.

That being said, if the murder doesn’t accomplish anything (tensions in Lod are only higher tonight), it is also immoral. Nuking Gaza would have major benefits, the problem is the consequences outweigh them.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #81 on: May 12, 2021, 03:20:52 PM »
Celebrating is a very different story, especially in public.

I can’t keep up with the pace of arguments so I don’t look at everything. Happy to address specific points when I can if anybody cares.

So killing a million kids is ok, and you wouldn't even "think twice" about it, but if a bunch of rowdy people in a festive mood at the kosel to celebrate Yom Yerushalayim sing after fireworks intended to harm them caused a fire on the other side of the wall, THAT is a problem?

I squirmed earlier when someone called you a pos. But you seriously have no qualms about killing millions of people, as long as the optics are good? And you blame that demented view on morality and halacha on top of that? Like @Ergel said, the only possible reasoning is that you are a troll. But even the greatest troll (Trump?) couldn't keep this up as long as you have.
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Offline gozalim

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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #82 on: May 12, 2021, 03:26:46 PM »
So killing a million kids is ok, and you wouldn't even "think twice" about it, but if a bunch of rowdy people in a festive mood at the kosel to celebrate Yom Yerushalayim sing after fireworks intended to harm them caused a fire on the other side of the wall, THAT is a problem?

I squirmed earlier when someone called you a pos. But you seriously have no qualms about killing millions of people, as long as the optics are good? And you blame that demented view on morality and halacha on top of that? Like @Ergel said, the only possible reasoning is that you are a troll. But even the greatest troll (Trump?) couldn't keep this up as long as you have.
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he takes his rebbeim's position to their logical conclusions
whether that constitutes reductio ad absurdum is in the eyes of the beholder

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #83 on: May 12, 2021, 03:27:18 PM »
So killing a million kids is ok, and you wouldn't even "think twice" about it, but if a bunch of rowdy people in a festive mood at the kosel to celebrate Yom Yerushalayim sing after fireworks intended to harm them caused a fire on the other side of the wall, THAT is a problem?

I squirmed earlier when someone called you a pos. But you seriously have no qualms about killing millions of people, as long as the optics are good? And you blame that demented view on morality and halacha on top of that? Like @Ergel said, the only possible reasoning is that you are a troll. But even the greatest troll (Trump?) couldn't keep this up as long as you have.
Now that it’s established that I’m a troll, are you advocating for Israeli restraint in Gaza to spare the ‘Human Shields’?
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #84 on: May 12, 2021, 03:28:34 PM »
I believe @PlatinumGuy
he takes his rebbeim's position to their logical conclusions
whether that constitutes reductio ad absurdum is in the eyes of the beholder
Thank you.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Online Ergel

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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #85 on: May 12, 2021, 03:28:57 PM »
Now that it’s established that I’m a troll, are you advocating for Israeli restraint in Gaza to spare the ‘Human Shields’?
Yes
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #86 on: May 12, 2021, 03:31:21 PM »
Yes
So you’re happy Blinken called on Israel to show that restraint?
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Online Ergel

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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #87 on: May 12, 2021, 03:31:46 PM »
So you’re happy Blinken called on Israel to show that restraint?
No, he should shut his mouth
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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #88 on: May 12, 2021, 03:33:06 PM »
No, he should shut his mouth
But you agree with the substance of his statement that Israel should restrain its response.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #89 on: May 12, 2021, 03:33:26 PM »
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #90 on: May 12, 2021, 03:40:11 PM »
Now that it’s established that I’m a troll, are you advocating for Israeli restraint in Gaza to spare the ‘Human Shields’?

There are *millions* of worlds in between nuking Gaza and avoiding all conflict for fear of killing a single innocent.
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Online Ergel

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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #91 on: May 12, 2021, 03:41:19 PM »
But you agree with the substance of his statement that Israel should restrain its response.
Israel should avoid all unnecessary collateral damage in it's response
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #92 on: May 12, 2021, 03:46:29 PM »
There are *millions* of worlds in between nuking Gaza and avoiding all conflict for fear of killing a single innocent.
Agreed. Please tell me where you draw the line, how you reach that conclusion, and why can’t you accept people on the Left who draw the line in a different place than you do?

You tend to make up your morals according to what you feel like at any given moment. You have an anchor them in some kind of basis.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #93 on: May 12, 2021, 03:49:06 PM »
Israel should avoid all unnecessary collateral damage in it's response
But how you define ‘unnecessary’?

There were a few people killed today because Israel didn’t nuke Gaza. Why is protecting those lives unnecessary in your book, but the lives it would cost to enter Gaza and attack Hamas without collateral damage, are necessary to you?

In the end, the difference is subjective. If you accept that Israel is right to kill 50 Palestinians now, why not 50k?
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Online Ergel

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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #94 on: May 12, 2021, 03:53:34 PM »
But how you define ‘unnecessary’?

There were a few people killed today because Israel didn’t nuke Gaza. Why is protecting those lives unnecessary in your book, but the lives it would cost to enter Gaza and attack Hamas without collateral damage, are necessary to you?

In the end, the difference is subjective. If you accept that Israel is right to kill 50 Palestinians now, why not 50k?
That's a thought provoking question. I'm not sure the answer right now.
I know the the line is before genocide and I don't think a reasonable person can disagree. I guess I don't know how to formulate it better than that
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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #95 on: May 12, 2021, 03:54:06 PM »
But how you define ‘unnecessary’?

There were a few people killed today because Israel didn’t nuke Gaza. Why is protecting those lives unnecessary in your book, but the lives it would cost to enter Gaza and attack Hamas without collateral damage, are necessary to you?

In the end, the difference is subjective. If you accept that Israel is right to kill 50 Palestinians now, why not 50k?

Nuking Gaza is nuking Israel.

Online Ergel

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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #96 on: May 12, 2021, 03:54:32 PM »
Nuking Gaza is nuking Israel.
Why? No arab country has nukes
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Offline gozalim

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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #97 on: May 12, 2021, 03:55:33 PM »
Nuking Gaza is nuking Israel.
replace nuke with carpet bomb
Why? No arab country has nukes
fallout

Online Ergel

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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #98 on: May 12, 2021, 03:57:55 PM »
replace nuke with carpet bombfallout
Oh, he obviously didn't literally mean use a nuclear bomb ::)
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Online yelped

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Re: Geopolitics and Wars of Israel
« Reply #99 on: May 12, 2021, 03:58:01 PM »
But you agree with the substance of his statement that Israel should restrain its response.
I agree with the sentiment, but you have to have a lot of gall to tell that to a country that is dealing with thousands of rockets being fired at cities all over the country.

You know that Israel is doing it's best and is facing a propaganda war as well. Just shut up, because if you try to be "even-handed" when it is not morally equal at all, you are just supporting those seeking Israel's destruction by giving them cover.